Oct. 6, 2021

342: Telling Stories with Max Justice! -with Patrick Kerby

342: Telling Stories with Max Justice! -with Patrick Kerby

How can storytelling help us expose the masses to underlying principles they already agree with for the long game?


How can storytelling help us expose the masses to underlying principles they already agree with for the long game?

 

Patrick Kerby, creator of Max Justice, joins the program to discuss!

 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Support our Sponsors!

Support the program with a one-time donation or join our Patreon!

Take our audience survey for a chance to win a "Don't Hurt People, Don't Take Their Stuff" bumper sticker! 

 

 

Transcript

Brian  
Trust the experts we're all in this together it saves one life. Raise your hand if you've heard any of those tiresome phrases over the past year and a half. I know my hand is currently raised millions of people across dozens of industries were labeled on essential and forced the lockdown with livelihoods and futures crushed in an instant and as government has continued to expand its power and leverage fear to turn neighbor against neighbor a group of filmmakers have taken a stand and are determined to help set the record straight on the importance of following the actual science of the pandemic. Follow the science on lockdowns and liberty from the sound mind creative group is a brand new docu series highlighting the stories of those negatively impacted over the past year and a half by ineffective government policies enacted in the name of following the science with noted experts like Nick Hudson from panda the pandemic data analytics organization healthcare policy advisors like Scott Atlas and telling stories of business owners families and just your average everyday person harmed by these government mandates follow the science on lock downs and liberty is giving us a chance to make sure the true stories of the pandemic are told so please help us at The Brian Nichols Show in supporting the sound mind creative group with noted figures in the Liberty movement like Dr. Tom Woods donating 1000s of their own dollars to this project you know just how important this project is. So head The Brian Nichols show.com forward slash follow the science to donate and catch their brand new trailer to the docu series one more time that's Brian Nichols show.com for slash follow the science we can become great at doing the the things that we do well the things that we focus on like I'm I think our audience is great at selling Liberty I think we have been amazing at doing that. Welcome to The Brian Nichols Show Your source for common sense politics on the we are libertarians network as a sales and marketing executive in the greater telecommunications cybersecurity industry. Brian works with C level executives to help them future proof their company's infrastructure for an uncertain future. And in each episode, Brian takes that experience and applies it to the Liberty movement, you start to ask questions that pique his interest and get him to feel like okay, this guy's actually got something that maybe you can help me out and then in you're asking him questions and trying to uncover the real problems, build that natural trust, annoy a weapon a monologue there, man. Instead of focusing on simply winning arguments or being right, we're teaching the basic fundamentals of sales and their application in the world of politics, showing you how to ask better questions, tell better stories, and ultimately change people's minds. And now, your host, Brian Nichols. Well, Happy Wednesday there, folks, Brian Nichols here on The Brian Nichols Show. And thank you for joining us on another fun filled episode. Yes, I am your humble host. And shout out to our man, the myth, the legend, Jeremy Todd, he was a little under the weather yesterday. And he still brought you a solo short discussing all things sales, specifically about physics and how the teachings of one Isaac Newton can help us in the sales cycle. So if you missed that episode, make sure you go ahead and check it out. But with that being said, on today's show, we are going to be talking storytelling and that is with one Patrick Kirby. Now Pat is the creator of Max justice, which is an awesome YouTube television show, which I cannot recommend enough which takes libertarian and liberty oriented principles and helps convey them to an audience in a really easy to understand way, but also through the means of storytelling. Why? Because at the end of the day, stories sell. So that being said out of the show, Patrick Kirby here on The Brian Nichols Show.

Patrick Kerby  
Hey, thank you, sir. Pleasure to be here. Absolutely. Pat, thank

Brian  
you for joining the program. And number one, thank you for being just a constant supporter. We talked about this before we hit the record button, you're so helpful in terms of not only helping raise awareness for other pro Liberty accounts that are out there, but you yourself, you're out there fighting the good fight, trying to show how we can be effective libertarian storytellers, which is a fundamental part of being a successful liberal libertarian salesperson. So with that being said, let's start off here. I want to introduce you to The Brian Nichols Show audience obviously your your video listener can see you're wearing a ron paul t shirt, and that's because let's dig into 2008 and 2012. You were a delegate for none other than the one and only Mr. Ron Paul. But how did that have happened with you starting off here in the greater Liberty world?

Unknown Speaker  
Well, I have a long history of being a libertarian. I worked on the Andre Maru campaign in 1992. And so when Ron Paul, when I heard that Ron Paul was running, I just went all in and spent every waking moment I had to learn that was a first year our state did a caucus, I had to learn all about the caucus process. I joined in that was pivotal in my state's strategy for acquiring delegates and I I was elected to be a National Gallery delegate both in 2008 2012 2008. I didn't get to go because publicans shut down our convention. But anyway, so I was deeply involved in the libertarian movement in the Republican Party until after 2012, when I kind of determined that there needed to be a cultural shift before that the political shift. Republicans really weren't interested in our message. And so that's when I decided to create max justice. I'm a TV producer and director. And so I created the max justice web series, in the hopes that I could attract the gaming age community to libertarianism.

Brian  
I, I've heard a lot of people throughout interactions we've done on social media, whenever a thread starts, somebody will pipe it in, they'll say, Wait, you're Pat Kirby. Where's Max? Justice, Ben. And it's because I think people were really reflecting back, they see the love themselves in the stories that you were telling. And you are approaching how to tell not just a libertarian leaning story, but also how to approach a lot of the real life situations that we come across on a day to day basis. So I think that's very important, because a lot of people are looking for those tools. And I know when we were starting off our conversation today, you know, before we hit the record button, you were mentioning, one of the things that you appreciate that I do is to help sell Liberty here, and I look at what you're doing is is exactly that, it's a tool to help me sell liberty, because there are people out there who are looking for something that can help be that medium to bring them from where they are, to where they can be. And it might be to your point, something like that. If you're a gamer, and you're looking and you see oh my gosh, that's very cool. How would you describe Max? Justin, I don't want to incorrectly describe max justice. Let's go ahead. Have you described now max justice, but also Pat, what is the max justice world like and and what was the inspiration for this character?

Unknown Speaker  
Well, the inspiration for this character is basically, when whenever I see injustice, I always think, you know, wouldn't it be something if there was someone you know, who had the power to confront this injustice, and just tell them everything they're doing wrong, and then maybe blow up their heads or something. And so that's that was the, you know, the origin of the other story ideas, I want to put someone in a situation that has the power to just appear, and event in justices and teach a lesson, you know, to kind of show where philosophically everything's gone wrong, wrong, where this correct injustice is being created. And it's, you know, our first episode that introduced max justice was an ISIS episode. And all these episodes are on YouTube, there are only five minutes five to 11 minutes. I think that 11 minutes is the longest episode part of the origin story. And the second episode was second amendment episode. And it's it's interesting you talk about how the effectiveness of storytelling I, I knew some liberals, I'll call them liberals, because they're not as villainous as leftist. They're just, you know, but I knew these people and I had talked with them about the Second Amendment and, and the right to self defense and everything before that, and got nowhere. And then when they saw this episode, they said, You know, I never really thought of it that way. Because when they saw the, the story, they were able to put themselves in the situation and say, you know, what, if, if I'm in a church, and you know, with a bunch of my friends and stuff like that, and someone comes in to kill us all, it would actually be pretty nice if one of my friends had a gun and, and was able to defend us. And putting it in that storytelling context, really drove the message home for them a lot better than just arguing about it.

Brian  
And that's what we've been focusing on over on the program for the past year and a half, two years, stop focusing on winning arguments, let's actually go ahead and win sales win converts, and at the end of the day, the reason being and this is I cannot stress enough is because if you have turned somebody off, they will not only not buy from you, but they will actively campaign against you. You will create not somebody who just is not that one time buyer, but now they will never be a buyer in the future. You have broken that trust, and that's where we need to start building more of that foundation. And it starts with letting what you've done Pat and that is help people see themselves in the story. We had Matt kibby on the show. And one of the themes that we were going through was to sell Liberty more tell better stories. How powerful is it to be able to actually go ahead and not only tell a story that people can resonate with, but then for them to take it and share with other people they become back to the point that our friend Chris Goyzueta brings up they become the superfan not just a view but of the principles of the actual values of the story that you're sharing and that's one of the the actually exciting things we can look to despite the the skew of the liberal media and or the liberal Hollywood elite in such they still will have stories that will come out every now and then and unintentionally or sometimes intentionally and they're snuck right in Do you have libertarian themes? I think of the lego movie I think of Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix you know there there are movies out there I mean the Hunger Games right Star Wars they all have these little sneaky libertarian themes despite them being intentional or not and that's something I think we can take and not not just throw away and say Hollywood name you know on it but rather say hey, you know that story in love here's why it actually is a libertarian theme and show them why they agree with it because they already will they enjoy the value of the story they enjoy the value of the movie The story that that's the you know whatever it may be that the series but they they do so because behind it behind the characters behind the actual arc of the character development there is an underlying something there that they get value from. So when you're going through and you're scripting out max justice, what was kind of that underlying theme that you were discovering Pat?

Unknown Speaker  
Well, I've always thought that the power of libertarianism is in the underlying principles. And so every time I would come up with a story and a conflict I would say okay, this is how we can expose the underlying principles you know, in the second amendment story it's a it's the principle of self defense which I don't think many leftists have ever even considered what is what is your belief on your right to defend your own body and they you know, they just go off with the emotional guns are bad but they never really consider the principles and I think that's one of the biggest selling points of libertarianism is that our principles are aligned with nature are aligned with human nature so that you know by opposing those principles you're actually in violating human nature and and so that's kind of what I want to expose in all the stories is you know the the underlying principles to to each issue

Brian  
I'm smiling because all the fans of the audience from the episode we have with Dr. Adrian version What is it freedom is nature we saw that because freedom is science with construct a law everything in life and literally that is everything whether it's evolution whether it's you know a river whether it's your progression through life, you want to go through the areas of least resistance to go through an area to expose your ideal sense of freedom and that is something that we can't ignore that is nature so let's help tie that to what people are already experiencing in their day to day let's make it easier for them not more difficult. So what's been the feedback then? I mean, I see it I see people enjoying max justice just from the exchanges like I mentioned back when I'm online so what was the audience what's been the reoccurring thing that they're telling you Hey Pat, this is why I keep coming back

Unknown Speaker  
well that's that's very interesting because I I it's not as popular as I had hoped. You know, my original idea for this was to get it popular enough to do a crowdfunding thing where I could get 50,000 libertarians or 50,000 people who liked the message to give me $1 and I could start producing these things and paying people and things like that all the all that I have up right now I've done on my own dime and you know it's a pretty expensive hobby. And so I the feedback from everyone who's seen it has been magnificent they all like it and share it and stuff like that but just not enough people have done it and I'm you know, I always like to go back and think okay, what am I doing wrong and not like say well, you know, the people aren't supportive enough or something like that and what am I doing wrong and and you know, maybe you can help me in this sales department here, because that's, that's part of the problem is the Liberty message is really hard to sell. Even when it's packaged in a five minute action adventure superhero story. It seems to be really hard to sell. There was I saw I saw a rap rant by Eric July saying, you know what we have to support our own when you see a Liberty message and things like that, you have to support it. And, and I was all excited and I and I got on his super chats on the next time he was on and said, Hey, have you seen max justice? And he goes, I believe I have. That was it. I mean, one share from Eric July. And you know, I could probably get a much larger audience that I have. But there, there's another series called max justice. So my hope is that he saw that instead of mine, and just doesn't think mine sucks.

Brian  
Well, and let's go back to the question you raised up, why is it so hard to sell Liberty? Well, I think there's an instant, there's an instant gut instinct to for for the people that we thought we should be targeting. And that is, the people who don't agree with us. And I think this is where we've gotten confused. In the past, we've looked to who our target market is as almost the other parties, but it's like, Okay, let's try and convince them that they're wrong. Instead of saying, Who are the people out there that we can talk to, that are already open to exploring other options, and enter into the conversations that they're already having the questions that they're already asking. So I would say, one of the benefits of what you've already done, is you've built the content. This is where our friend Chris, again, what will promote what you've done from a marketing perspective is now it's a matter of is taking that and being able to break it apart into really quick, easy to digest. It could be, you know, minute and a half, two minute or so, clips, but then you can use that as a tool to hit people who are asking the questions, if there's a particular segment on, let's go back to the point you were raising up about the Second Amendment, the value of being able to have the ability to defend yourself, you can have a very quick you know, 32nd to a minute or so you know, zinger clip from Max justice, and have a right there in your back pocket and enter into that conversation they're already having and then it's a matter of if they're interested, if they got value from it. Now they have a means to go ahead and take that next step. Go to the actual site, go to the YouTube page, share it with friends become a superfan in their own world. Thoughts?

Unknown Speaker  
Yeah, no, that's, that's a that's a great idea. I made a bunch of notes. And that I wanted to go over with you and it's you know, all about all about the ideas of upselling liberty and why and so why it's so difficult, difficult. I mean, I wanted to to go over all of the things that that Liberty has going for it and like we said, it's the it's a it goes along with with nature that you know, the we have history's on our side, we've created the greatest nation on world with the lame attempt at Liberty people will say, Ah, it's been wrong from the beginning. And you know, the Lysander Spooner people and saved the constitution couldn't prevent things. So it's useless and things like that, but and yet, we created the greatest nation on Earth, the freest nation on Earth. And, and that was done with libertarian principles. So why is it so hard to sell? You know, and I, I'm baffled by this. And and want to think about, you know, if there was principles that we can all agree on, like, say, power corrupts. That's something everybody can agree on. So, you know, let's build a government based on that, that agreement. And, and basically, the government that our founders built, was it, the foil for corruption, is transparency, accountability and competitions. So they built a system that had those things. But now we have none of that government is not transparent, not accountable. And basically, there's no competition less for it. So why do people keep voting for what we know is never going to stop corruption.

Brian  
sunken cost fallacy. This is where Victor Antonio and I had a great conversation back on Monday, I think it was last week. And really the conversation centered around this very question, why is it so hard to get people to make that change to say, yeah, you know what, me spending 40 years as a Republican wasn't a good idea at me spending 30 years as a Democrat wasn't a good idea. I'm going to go ahead and look at being a big l libertarian, or just exploring the ideas of being something other than what I have been. And the problem is, is that that's just real Life years gone, that they now have to make the acknowledgement that it wasn't really the most, the best use of their time, the best use of their energy. And for a lot of people, they've gotten to the point. Okay, I'm okay with that I can, I can embrace the fact that this isn't going to get me the best solution that I'm looking for every single time. But every four years, every two years, my team might win. And it almost becomes a sport. Really, I mean, if you think about it, Pat, it's gotten to this sport mentality where it's my team versus your team. And it's Yeah, it's no longer

Unknown Speaker  
let someone go. Someone will be a fan of a team even though all the players are different right now than they were three years ago and things like that. So I am, I'm at you know, and that's one of the things that I think the only thing that libertarianism because to me, libertarianism ism is the battle between collectivism and individualism. And that's kind of how you can how you can dissect these things. Whenever when libertarians are infighting and things like that. You could say, Okay, well, that's a collectivist principle. So that's not really libertarian. So libertarian and collectivism, I think that's the only thing that libertarianism does not go along with nature. Human Nature is our tendency towards tribalism. It's the Enlightenment taught us that individualism, that respecting the individual is how we are free, and that it turned the concept of the divine right of Kings on its head. And it but it, there's still this tendency towards tribalism, that, that individualism, you have to use your intellect to get through it.

Brian  
But it makes sense. And this is why it's so hard. And this is why sales is so important because when we're selling what we're trying to do is help sell security which is almost antithesis to the idea that you're speaking of, of liberty of, you know, personal autonomy freedom. And I would actually say, instead of saying it's, you know, we are selling security, you have to sell that solution that creates that feeling of security to that person, you have to give them the ability to make the choice and I forget who I was speaking to Darren, it's gonna drive me crazy by No, I just I just most recently originally talked about this with Adam kriegler. One of the things we were discussing was sometimes people actually do you know, who wants is Larry Sharpe, Larry Sharpe never talk about this. Because it happiness, it's so objective. But Larry is awesome. I love Larry, and he's running for governor in New York. So pay attention there. Yeah. But happiness, we you can get there certain ways. For some people, it's by adding in layers of removing personal liberty of removing that autonomy. So you look to what well, any organized religion, there are so many times where you have to make personal sacrifices in order to be in you know, involved in that religion, think of anybody who goes to the gym and works out, you're creating personal sacrifices, but you're also putting yourself through personal pain, in some cases, to go ahead and get the results you're looking to get. But it's a it's a structure, that while it's limiting you in some certain way, it's helping you obtain, and really guide you to that happiness. So we have to almost reverse engineer. And this is where we sometimes get stuck in why we what you just said we need intellect is because we need to be able to help create the solution that creates that personal feeling of security and comfort. But right, we have to do it outside of the public sphere.

Unknown Speaker  
Yeah. And the important thing is getting people to differentiate between the short term and the long term. Because you know, short term security is your, your check from the government. What's that going to do for you long term and getting people to think long term? You know, this is what I think the founders were, Mark, you know, that's what made them so marvelous, is they're able to think, okay, if we apply this, then 50 years from now, this is going to be the result, you know, and that there was I think it was the there was an Indian nation that said whenever their counsel would meet, they would discuss their problems and their potential solutions, and then they will discuss how they're, what the the policies that they impose today, how they're going to affect people, seven generations down the road. And I think that is a that is a very wise thing to consider that the founders did, and no politician does today. It's all about getting the Yes,

Brian  
the challenge, Pat of getting people to think long term. Yeah, I deal with it all day long in my day job because I Let's just go let's look at cybersecurity. You I'm not even kidding. There are companies who they have factored out okay, if we get hit with a cybersecurity attack, how much in there's actually a thing called cybersecurity insurance? How much can we pay for per month for our cybersecurity insurance and then coverage up to a certain amount relative to actually investing in a legitimate cybersecurity solution. And you have to help them understand like you're doing a short term things I'm not thing to protect, it's a matter of just like covering your, your financial means, really, but like all of the data that can be possibly lost, like you're forgetting all that, while you're thinking that short term gain, what's happening long term, you get hit, yeah, you're able to cover the cost of it. But your customers now are like, you just got hit with a ransomware attack, I'm out. Because I know all my information could get compromised in the future, sorry, not gonna take that risk. Because people don't like taking risks. So we have to make it as easy as possible for people to make the decision, or at least start to consider alternatives, and show them that the risk isn't as great as they might think it is. And we have to show them at the end of the day, too, that the reward, it actually exists, that it's more than just feeling good because you vote third party, and you can say, ha, I didn't contribute to the awfulness that's happening right now. But people want to feel my vote matters. And not only that, as a matter, but it's helping things get better. That's why you see so many people tie their identities to their political selves, because that's their way of being able to tell people that I'm a good person, I did the right thing. I voted for my team, who because my team represents the collective security, and it's a never ending cycle.

Unknown Speaker  
Yeah, that's, that's true. You know, you would think that as the fear of the gulags gets evermore real and present, that people would be looking for the viable alternative to turn things around rather quickly. Because, you know, things are not looking good.

Brian  
Not only are things not looking good, but we see right now firsthand, in, in places like Australia, what happens when people stop taking the personal responsibility role seriously, and have abdicated all responsibility to government. And now, and this is the sad part, when you've abdicated your true security, right? Your ability to defend not only yourself, but your family, your livelihood, to the government. Now they are the arbiters of well, what is your stuff, right? Because now what are you going to do? What are you gonna do? You're gonna vote, you're going to vote really hard. Vote harder, right? And this is, um, this is the sad reality of where we are right now. And we have to really start to make a change and get people to start to think differently. But here's the white pill, right? the proverbial white pill. I'm seeing more and more people who I never thought would be saying, hold up, starting to ask more questions. Nicki Minaj what world is this? That I'm I'm agreeing with Nicki Minaj Draymond Green, I mean, NBA players coming out of the woodwork that I'd never thought I would be at all supporting for anything and I don't remember I don't care about the NBA I'm a big football fan. But number two like you pretty much can guarantee almost all of them are you know tried and true democrats but I think a lot of them are starting to wake up saying I can't even ask a question what's happening

Unknown Speaker  
yeah the whole the whole thing is is reach such absurd levels of you know, follow the science but you can't question the science well wait, science is questioning the science Yeah. There's all these absurd things well, we can't talk about natural immunity wait what you know it's all so absurd that yes, that is the white pill that a lot of people are waking up it's just you know, what is the line in the sand Are we going to get to Australia are you know are is Australia you know I always wondered when I read soldier needs and and stuff like this. How did millions and millions of people allow a few 1000 people to control them and, and murder millions of people like this. And you know, I see it happening because good people don't like to do bad things and and they will resist doing that until the very last minute and sometimes the last minute was too late and then you find yourself alone.

Brian  
Sometimes the last minute is too late and then you find yourself alone. truer words have not been spoken on The Brian Nichols Show since last. Episode Patrick Kirby thank you so much for all your insight we want people to obviously continue the conversation where can folks go ahead and follow you on social media and also find max justice TV?

Unknown Speaker  
Max justice is Max justice.tv is the website. The YouTube channel is Max justice. There's another one so make sure you get the one with this guy that's behind me. My my Twitter is let me just find it. It used to be max justice for all. But that got that got fried. So

Brian  
isn't Twitter nice?

Unknown Speaker  
Yeah. Now I'm Patrick B. Kirby on Twitter.

Brian  
Fantastic.

Unknown Speaker  
spelled ke RB Why? Check it out. Check out my timeline. There's Liberty gold there dating back to one ever it started. And, and yeah, and follow and support The Brian Nichols Show and learn about how to sell liberty.

Brian  
Thank you so much, Patrick. We appreciate all the love and support I truly hear from not only myself, but also the team at The Brian Nichols Show. And that yes, folks, if you want to go ahead and learn more about Pat, but also learn more about max justice, go ahead and click the artwork on your podcast catcher. It'll bring you right to The Brian Nichols show.com where you can find on 350 plus episodes. My goodness of The Brian Nichols Show, including today's episode with all these social media links transcription for the entire episode in the video version of the episode as well today, Patrick Kirby, thanks for joining the program.

Unknown Speaker  
Thank you, sir.

Brian  
Who doesn't like going out and having a glass of wine and celebrating Liberty? Well, if you're in Alameda County, don't worry. I have an amazing event for you coming up on Sunday, October 3 at 1pm the 15th annual wine and liberty celebration at Westover vineyards winery sponsored by the Libertarian Party of Alameda County questions email Elizabeth stump elpac vice chair at Vice chair@lpac.us Alrighty, folks, that's going to wrap up our conversation with Patrick Kirby and what an awesome conversation It was. It really goes into why is so important for us to be effective communicators, but also effective storytellers. So folks, if you enjoyed today's episode, do me a favor, please be sure to go ahead and give it a share. And when you do, make sure you go ahead and give pat a tag and make sure to go ahead and give yours truly tag as well. at B. Nichols Liberty coming up tomorrow up in the air, we were still working things out. But I promise you either have a marketing short with the one and only Professor himself Chris Goyzueta. Or you'll have a one on one with yours truly talking all things sales. Either way, make sure you go ahead and hit that subscribe button so you're not missing a single episode. Oh, and by the way, if you haven't had the chance yet, please head over help me out, get our subscription list for the morning sales huddle, up to 200. We're at 160 right now. I need 40 more of you guys that go ahead and subscribe. So that's my challenge by the end of the week. Let's go ahead and get those numbers up. So you want to be a part of the morning sales huddle, head to Brian Nichols show.com. And you can sign up right there. And of course while you're at it, go ahead and get our free ebook, four easy steps you can implement now to help sell liberty to friends and family. All right, folks, that's all I have for you. Brian Nichols signing off. You're on The Brian Nichols Show for Patrick Kirby. We'll see you tomorrow.

Unknown Speaker  
Thanks for listening to The Brian Nichols Show. Fun more episodes at The Brian Nichols show.com.

Brian  
If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to subscribe. Want to help us reach more people? Give the show a five star review and tell your friends to subscribe to find us at Brian Nichols show.com and download the show on Apple podcast, Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. Follow me on social media at V. Nichols liberty and consider donating to the show at Brian Nichols show.com forward slash support. The Brian Nichols Show is supported by viewers like you. Thank you to our patrons Darryl Smith, Maura Stanley, Mike olema, Michel Mankiewicz, Cody John's, Craig Acosta, and the we're libertarians network. audio production for The Brian Nichols Show is brought to you by DB podcast audio Learn more by emailing inquiries to Wm at dB pod audio.com

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Patrick Kerby

Writer/Producer/Director

Long time advocate for liberty. Creator of the web series at MaxJustice.tv