Market-based solutions that create change, and how they're working to make people aware of the power they have to change their government.
On today's episode, I'm joined by Connor Boyack from the Libertas Institute!
Connor and I discuss the ways in which his organization is changing hearts and minds to build a freer society by using writing not children's books, but family resources in their Tuttle Twin series. We also talk about how they use market-based solutions (like Opportunity Sandboxes) to create change, and how they're working to make people aware of the power they have to change their government.
It's a great conversation about an important topic, so I hope you enjoy it!
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Brian Nichols 0:03
focusing on winning arguments. We're teaching the basic fundamentals of sales and marketing and how we can use them to win in the world of politics, teaching you how to meet people where they're at on the issues they care about. Welcome to The Brian Nichols Show. Yes, we are going to be focusing on meeting people where they're at on Tuesday. I hear about kids do that and other things as well. We're going to get to that in a second. Hey there, Brian, and with Vietnam, The Brian Nichols Show. Thank you for joining us on of course, another fun filled episode. I am as always your humble host, thank you for joining us. Yes, here from the beautiful Stratus ip studios in lovely, lovely Eastern Indiana. Don't let cyber attacks or old outdated technology slow your company down and learn more at Stratus ip.net. or schedule a free consultation over at Brian Nichols show.com forward slash Stratus ip. All right, folks, before we go ahead and introduce today's guest, I want to go ahead and give a shout out to today's sponsor, and that is right strategies. Now, you know, here at The Brian Nichols Show, we're talking to candidates, we're talking to Liberty activists, but we're also talking to lot of small business owners. So if you're out there, and you're looking for some help in terms of reaching your voters both where they are spending their time, but also where your customers are spending their time, Well look no further right strategies. They're specializing in the unique challenges that both running political campaigns will bring to the table as well as running a small business in the digital landscape. And with an awesome awesome record of helping clients win elections and grow their businesses using smart strategic digital marketing, right strategies is going to be the perfect partner to help you hit your goals. Their team of experts is going to help you save time, money. Also while doing your messaging and helping you win your elections, but also win in the marketplace. They have a great SMS texting tool that's going to be giving you a smart, efficient and affordable way to focus your marketing budget by helping you reach 1000s of voters and customers making a powerful impact on the outcome of your elections and business growth. from social media management to expert graphic design work to marketing your campaign or product, right strategies can put together a plan that makes sense for your goals and do so within your budget. So if you want to learn more about how right strategies can help you specifically when your elections and grow your business, head to the Brian Nichols show.com forward slash R s and you can go ahead and get your free political campaign or business marketing plan report card. But first, you got to make sure you let Morgan and her team over right strategies know that I send you one more time at Brian Nichols show.com forward slash RS amplifying your message where voters and customers spend their time. All right, folks. On to today's episode. Looking forward to this conversation, Connor boy from Liberty House, welcome to The Brian Nichols Show.
Connor Boyack 2:57
Thanks for having me.
Brian Nichols 2:58
Absolutely, Connor, thank you for joining us today. I'm looking forward to this conversation. Because for folks who are joining us here on The Brian Nichols Show, if you're familiar with the the theme of what we do here in the program, we try to meet people where they're at, on the issues they care about. And we have to get outside of the idea of just telling people all the things that we care about, right? Because if we're in the liberty movement, let's be real Connor, there's a lot of things that we care about. And we want other people to care about them just as much and as passionately as we do. But sometimes we approach things in a little bit too aggressive of a way we push people away. You've been having though amazing success, and not only meeting those people where they're at. But doing so starting at a quite a young age, using children's books talk to us about Tuttle twins, but also talk to us about the amazing work you're doing over at Liberty. Awesome.
Connor Boyack 3:47
Well, thank you, I'm glad to be with you. And I share that same sentiment we need to meet people where they're at if we want to persuade them standing on a soapbox and shouting what we believe might rally to our side those who already agree with us, but doesn't really do much to convince other people who are fence sitters, or who initially might disagree with us or misunderstand something to actually side with who we are what we stand for. I think of Shark Tank, I watched Shark Tank religiously, I always have and on there, Mark Cuban often will talk about when there's a product that is for children or for pets, he'll often point out that people will indiscriminately spend on those two categories if it's for their pets, or if it's for their kids, more than they will for themselves. People resist self improvement self education, but you know, they'll be darned if they're not going to give their pet you know, the best quality care possible or help their kids you know, in whatever way they can. And so for us, I think about this if I stopped the average person on the street and adults, and I say hey, here's this economic book, let's say it's economics in one lesson by Henry Hazlitt boiled down economics about how the world works, how economics actually works, what it is means for you and I in our daily lives. Here's this book was written decades ago. You know, will you read it? And I handed free copy to guy on the street? What do you think the chances are that he's gonna read that book I would say,
Brian Nichols 5:11
all my free time I have right between going to work picking my kids up from school trying to get my extra degree. Oh, by the way, I have a night job as well. Yeah, I have plenty of time to read this extra book you're giving me of course.
Connor Boyack 5:23
And even if they I mean, because let's be honest, even people who are busy have time, we all have time, it's a question of what we prioritize. And and so I think the broader problem beyond people being busy as they're disinterested, they're disinterested in learning that for themselves, they don't see what the personal relevance is. They don't want to have to read a, you know, dense, you know, hard to read book full of multi syllable words written in the English of, you know, the 1960s or 70s, whenever it was, and, you know, versus if I hand that same person, a mom or a data book and say, Do you want your children to become well rounded? Do you want them to be critical thinkers? Do you want them to be entrepreneurs? Do you want them to learn about how the world works? Do you want them to learn these time tested ideas of how strong societies are built? Well, you know, tons of them are gonna say yes, and more so than those who would receive that education for themselves. So what we've done with the Tuttle twins is, you know, when we started, we thought we were just doing kids books, hey, let's, you know, turn these classic books and essays and important works into children's versions that parents who already know about the books ours are based on, they can then get these children's versions, and they could share these ideas with their kids. And so when we started, we had this very myopic kind of focus on what we were doing, let's do kids books, and turn these classic texts into children's versions. And, and so we proceeded on that path. But what we've since realized is that what we're actually creating is family resources, not children's books, because I would say over half of the parents who get our books are learning things for the first time that they never learned in school, they never took time to learn on their own self education. And because this isn't a format, and easy format, where they can read alongside their child, and just have, you know, a nightly reading experience after dinner and have a family discussion, the parents, the adults are engaging way more with the content than if I handed them that original book ours was based off of, and so it's become this, I won't call it a sneaky way. But it's become a much more, shall we say, effective way to reach people with these ideas, to simplify them, and to focus it on their kids, because then they buy the books, because they want their kids to learn things. And meanwhile, the parents defenses come down. And they're willing to learn about these things, too, and have discussions. And so we've been educating entirely entire families. We're meeting people where they're at in terms of their limited understanding of these ideas, but offering them not this tome of, you know, an economic masterpiece, but we're starting very simple. And then at the end of the of our books, we say, Hey, if you like this, here's the original book, it's based off of go get that and you can continue learning, and then many parents will then go acquire those original books, once they've dipped their toe in the water. And they've seen it isn't so scary.
Brian Nichols 8:02
I love the fact that you really I mean, quite literally with the meet people where they're at. And this This is so true across so many different levels, folks, we talked about this, in all of our different trainings, especially go back to our episodes in early 2021, where he really dug into those. But look at what Connor mentioned here, right as he's going through and outlining this, when you talked about the parent sitting down and reading a book to the kid at night, right? That is is something that a lot of parents are gonna be able to empathize with, right sitting down. And spending that time having that time carved out to sit and read with your kid versus carving out the time to add time into your schedule to find that, you know, chance to read the big thick book, it gives them a chance to almost get rid of the barrier to entry. Right? We talked about making it so you're you're making it easier for your customer to do business with you. This is, in that sense, almost constant conditioning them. That's not the case. But you're you're giving them an avenue that previously wasn't there. It's like podcasting. Right, what we're doing here in The Brian Nichols Show, I'd say 90% of the audience listening here, the 10s of 1000s of folks out there, Hey, folks who are watching us, or listening to us today are doing so via audio, meaning they're probably doing something else they're driving to work, they're, you know, going to pick up the kids, they're out working out, you know, that's why Listen, alumni podcasts are out walking, you know, walking the dog, so they're doing something else, and they're able to out to get this information in this content in ways they wouldn't have been to otherwise. So you're seeing that this is really helping people get involved and get into content they wouldn't have had otherwise. And frankly, this is also what you're having success with the Libertas Institute and that's partly also why you're here today is because you guys are doing phenomenal work in meeting people where they're at specifically in their states and localities helping them sandbox ideas, figure out Liberty based solutions, but also staying ahead of a lot of the regulators that are out there trying to stifle innovation talk to us about that, Connor. I know one of the things you're looking at are opportunity. sandboxes What's that?
Connor Boyack 10:04
Well, so are nonprofit Libertas Institute for the cool kids. If you want to be cool at a party, you can impress people with this fact when the Statue of Liberty Her name is Libertas, it's the Roman goddess of liberty. The dead language apparently, a bear. Well, yeah, so what I went through a linguist and I said, How would this be pronounced? He's like, it's a dead language. No one knows. But there's two schools of thought there's like the Germanic, you know, Libertas, which most people say, because that's kind of how we speak. Or you could think of the Italian the Libertas, you know, the Spanish and the Italian and, and I was like, oh, that sounds sexier. So we're gonna call it Libertas. But so we are a nonprofit, we're what's called the think tank, we sit around all day and figure out how we can change hearts, minds, and laws. And, and kind of the theme of your show is of interest to me because I feel like too many people in the freedom movement, lack any understanding of marketing and human psychology and communication. It's just I am right I am so persuaded by these ideas. Let me be so logical and overwhelm you with my rationality and surely you will agree. And you know, they, they read Basquiat, but they don't reach Aldini. And that I think, is a big problem. Everyone needs to be reading, you know, Cialdini and other communication marketing gurus who understand, we need to learn how brains operate if we want to then you know, persuade people. And these are tools that are being used for evil against us, you know, through propaganda and the like, but they are tools for good that we can help people, you know, take action to the point of the Tuttle twins books, we need to make it easy for people to say yes, whether it's a customer doing business with us, it's a family buying our books, I need to remove, as you say those barriers of entry so that it's easier for someone to say yes, the same thing for us applies in the political context. So our, our nonprofit Libertas Institute, we sit around all day trying to figure out how we can get elected officials to say, yes, how we can get policymakers to agree with these ideas, how we can shift what's called the Overton Window, this concept of, you know, the, this, the spectrum of ideas here, and then, you know, this window of what is politically feasible and appropriate. And so when we want to shift the Overton window, we may have this idea, that's an outlier right now, for us, for example, a few years ago, it was legalizing medical cannabis in Utah, no one thought we'd be able to do this, it was a crazy idea, right? And then we figured out how to actually shift that window so that that idea was perceived to be, you know, appropriate and beneficial. And within that spectrum of safe, you know, what Tom Woods calls the three by five card of allowable opinion, right? Like, finally, this is an idea I can feel comfortable with. And now the law passes. So we sit around thinking of whether it's, you know, repealing the death penalty, or lowering regulation, or legalizing medical cannabis and allowing people to have an Airbnb in their home, or chickens in their backyard are all these things. We try and approach each of these issues from the vantage point of saying, How can we meet those elected officials where they're at, they have their own biases and experiences and pressures, political pressures from peers, or leadership or their constituents. So how can we craft this idea or these talking points in a way that will land well with that person and help them understand our point of view and not immediately, you know, react or defensively fight back? For us, that became a big issue when it came to these opportunity. sandboxes. And the classic example is Uber and Lyft. So when the when they came to town, all the taxis over decades had passed, and all these state laws to really say that you can only do taxis. So it was illegal everywhere to do Uber and Lyft. Now Uber and Lyft. Or, you know, Elon Musk selling Tesla's, it was illegal in my state, as in many others to do direct car sales. Because the car dealers had gotten the laws changed to say you have to sell cars to car dealerships, Elon and Uber and
Lyft. And all these companies, these innovative companies had the capital to go pay for lawyers and lobbyists to steamroll their way through and get what they want. But what of the little guy, one of the little guy that sits at his kitchen table, and he maps out this idea for business, and he goes to look into it, only to find out that that's not legal, but there was this law passed 30 years ago, or whatever that inhibits, or prohibits the very thing he's trying to do? Well, you know, the average Joe does not have sufficient funding to fight that issue. So he pivots and you know, moves on to something else, or continues working in his dead end job. So an opportunity sandbox is a policy. It's a law that's passed that says, Okay, let's say that guy, Bob's sitting at his kitchen table, rather than him being deprived of his American Dream. Instead, now he can come in this sandbox, this legal programming, he fills out an application, like, Hey, I've got this business idea that law stands in my way. I want to be shielded from that law for two years, while I can go to market and demonstrate that everything's working just fine and go serve customers, and you regulators, you can watch me and I'll file reports and you'll see that everything's fine. And as long as there's no harm to public health or safety. Let me go do that. So that I can go experiment with this lower rate. regulatory environment. So our organization helped Utah become the first state in the country. This was our idea that we innovated. So we got the legislature to pass this law, first one in the country. And now we go across the country helping other legislators do the same. We had, I think, like a dozen bills pass across the country, Arizona just became the second state to pass the full sandbox. And this becomes a way for legislators to be forward looking and say, I don't know what business models and products and services are going to be thought of a decade from now or next year, 30 years from now, let's have a system in place where when that happens, and there is some conflict with the law or regulation, there's kind of a Get Out of Jail Free card where that entrepreneur can still develop what they're trying to do. So it's a way rather than being proactive, excuse me, rather than being reactive with policy where that's illegal, let's shut them down. And then go try and fix it. You know, a couple years later, let's be proactive, forward looking, and embrace innovation, through this, this policy to sandbox where we can welcome entrepreneurs and say, we're going to shield you from these laws while you go innovate and iterate and see what things look like,
Brian Nichols 16:04
Wow, that's so cool. Because because we talk about the barrier to entry, right? We and this is something we see all the time, all the time with regards to why people don't get involved, why they they you know why they won't take that step and get out of the dead end job and go just become an entrepreneur and follow that that passion project because they don't want to deal with the nonsense. They don't want to go have to sign up for starting a business. They want to start the business, they don't want to go through the legal loopholes in the red tape. It's a hinderance and in many cases, it stifles the opportunity for us to grow, not just both economically, but as a society, because we've seen as you have more and more economic growth across the board, there's almost a direct correlation with more and more liberty more and more freedom directly as it pertains to the free market. So you see it works. You see the correlation. And yet, and this is the part that like we see the innate problem with government is that all these laws with very few exceptions, are there forever. Right? Once a law is there, there is no in many cases, Sunshine claws, it will be there for infinity and beyond in many cases, and yet the technology, the time it changes, the laws themselves don't. So this is important, I think to your point is it shows not just that there are more opportunities for us to get more innovation out there. But it will also say it will help cast the sunlight and expose the very, very just gross old outdated laws for exactly what they are. Sunlight is in this case, the best disinfectant right?
Connor Boyack 17:36
Yeah, I think that's exactly right. And the challenge is there are many people in the world who do not want transparency, they do not want competition, they want to protect their turf, just like the taxis do not want Uber and Lyft. And because they could not fairly compete, they turn to their friends and power and said, We want you to shut them down and use the government to deprive consumers of competition. And anytime there's a monopoly, you know, the quality goes down, the prices go up, it does not help consumers. But it is always a fight. It's a fight like we in our Tuttle twins books, even we have stories in some of the books where we talk about competition, and we talk about protectionism. And we show these kids that, like, look, there's silly examples with like food trucks, you know, and the big restaurant chains in town being buddies with the mayor trying to shut down through drugs because he doesn't like competition. But this is a serious issue outside of just these little examples. This is endemic to our political process where people are trying to weaponize the law to benefit their business. And, you know, we have to be persuasive. I mean, those of us who are kind of ambassadors for freedom, like I, I run this thing tank, we've got, I don't know, gosh, 80 plus people overall work in here now. And, and we I call myself and my team full time freedom fighters, like we sit around all day trying to figure out how to move the ball down the road. And that requires us to be masters of communication and human psychology and know how we can actually move the ball forward. In my early career, I felt very cathartic in writing these great Facebook posts or going up to the capitol and condemning all the elected officials and telling them how wrong they were for passing this, you know, subsidy are writing these op eds that just criticize my opposition. And it felt good, right, it was a good release, but it wasn't leading to any success. It wasn't changing anyone's mind it, I got, I can pat myself on the back and I got, you know, likes and whatever, from people who already agreed, but I was actually alienating the very people whose support I needed to actually change things. And so I really realized that I had to learn and I had to change my approach and I had to communicate differently. And I had to understand that you know, everyone is a hero in their own story. They're on their own journey. And my role is not to be the hero. It's to be the guide. It's to be the guide and say, I know the path towards you know, success or freedom or whatever, follow me. You're You're on your own journey. You've got your own experiences or motivations or pressure For years or whatever, but hey, let me try and guide you in the right way that's going to help you avoid the pitfalls. You know, avoid the big problems and be able to realize the success that you want. And so I think, I mean, one of the favorite business books that I like is building a story brand by Don Miller, where he talks about how the hero's journey can be utilized in the business context where oftentimes as business owners, we do position ourselves as the guide. I remember at the time I read the book, our whole Tuttle twins website was framed around us being excuse me not to say hero earlier, not good. My whole website was framed around me and the Tuttle twins being the hero, look how great we are, we have these amazing books. And we're here to you know, be do all these impressive things, and you should buy our books. And what that book what building a story brand really showed me was that I was competing against my customers in the hero narrative, they are a hero in their own mind and their own journey. And I was portraying myself as a hero. And that was a fundamental conflict with how they perceive themselves. Instead, when I cast myself as the guide, when we reframed the entire website, to be more guide oriented, Hey, Mom, Hey, Dad, we know that you've got these pitfalls ahead. And you're nervous about this. And you've got this journey to go on with your kids, and you're uncertain about the future. Hey, I know the way hey, I have a plan, hey, I have some thoughts that will help you. Let me guide you along the way. Instead, I'm now in a supporting capacity, and everyone on that hero's journey now can benefit from the guides help along their own path, whatever that is. And so whether I'm trying to persuade elected officials, or get people to buy a book, you know, that Hero's Journey framework has been very effective. And it does help me think through like, again, how am I going to persuade these people? How am I going to change their mind? How can I help them? And that requires me to shift a lot of my natural tendencies of how I communicate, and what I'm gonna say. And I hit the delete button more often than I hit the publish button, because in the moment, that tweet feels really good. And then I always pause and think like, oh, this is gonna actually move the needle for what I want. All right, we'll save that in the drafts for another day. And and I think that's a good thing.
Brian Nichols 22:03
Yeah, well, and as I was looking behind, because there's a book, it's called sell different, we had Lee sales in the lee Sol's, excuse me on the program. And it's very much in that same ballpark of what can you do to help differentiate yourself, but then specifically, another book, actually, I was looking to see if I had I don't have it here. It's called elite, elite sales strategies from Anthony Annarino. And talking about being the guide, right and helping show people the pitfalls, show people the path that's more or less his approach is you're trying to, you know, more or less, be the expert, be the consultant in this case. And that's what we as sales professionals have to do. And at the end of the day, we've talked about this with Victor Antonio on the show, you're selling everything, you're at the end of the main thing, you're selling change, you're not trying to sell a product or a service, or a book or an idea, you're selling change, you're getting somebody to go from one position one status quo, to a new solution, a new position. And that sometimes is the part we forget, we want to be right we want to, you know, to your point, get the self-satisfaction seals likes coming in, you're like, oh, dopamine rush, I love it. But we have to remember that that's only for us. That's only for our heroes story. We have to help meet people where they're at on their hero's journey, help them actually succeed and reach that, that, you know, that success that they're looking for in life. And we do that by helping play the role of sales, professional consultant, whatever you want to classify yourself as, but at the end of the day, we're helping people we're helping people find change and then enact change. So with that being said, final thoughts on my end for today, I'll start things off Connor, I want to quickly make things somber, but quickly remember, our good friend Gary Collins, a dear friend of the show. He recently passed away here back in September. Great, great guy, and you know, just want to keep him and his family in our prayers right now. Did a great episode yesterday where we went through some great memories with Gary, you know, laughs deep messages. You know, he has a lot of wisdom as well. So if you guys are interested in hearing some of the great stories that Gary was able to share and some of the values Please go ahead, check that episode out from yesterday's episode. That's all I have for my final thoughts. Connor, what do you have for us today for final thoughts on today's episode, The Brian Nichols Show.
Connor Boyack 24:19
I would say my final thoughts are that I know the power of the message that I'm sharing and I feel like it is my moral duty to become the most effective communicator possible to help people listen to and adopt this message because I've seen what these telephones books are what changing these laws have done for so many people's lives. And the testimonials and the stories they share and everything i i have abundant evidence in my own limited experience of doing this for a decade of seeing the impact of these ideas and these values in people's lives. And so I feel compelled to spend like every waking moment I'm trying to improve what I do and extend my reach and influence to reach even more households to reach even more families to find effective ways to lower those barriers, and get people to take action. And think of these things and act on these things. Because I know that when they do, the vast majority of them are going to, you know, their lives will be improved for it. And so I want that for them. I selfishly want that for myself, because getting all the kudos and the gratitude and people sharing their stories, it feels really good. Like, I'm addicted to helping people, it's really fun to receive all that praise and be able to see the impact of that work. And I want more of that. And, and so for everyone out there, whether you're in a business, or you're fighting for freedom, or whatever, like, I think it's an imperative to figure out how to be an excellent communicator, to learn how to persuade to learn how to be able to convey your message. Well, I'm reading books all the time trying to think through how I can do this better what we can change, because I think I owe it to the people we serve. And I think it's a skill that we can all improve upon.
Brian Nichols 26:02
Oh, man, I can't say anything better than that. I mean, truly, folks, like that's, if not a perfect summary of what we do here on the show, frankly, is trying to help us better communicate our ideas. Because at the end of the day, it doesn't mean anything for us to feel like we're right. We don't win anything by being right. We win by meeting people where they're at on the issues that they care about, and then actually show them a real path to make the ideas that sounds so great to us become reality for them. So thank you counter for everything you're doing at the bare tests. Yes Institute, but also all the great work you're doing with the Tuttle twins. Now, with that being said, folks listening, I know they're they're just chomping at the bit. They want to know where can they go ahead, learn more follow you engage in conversation, Connor, where can they go ahead and continue next steps on their end?
Connor Boyack 26:48
So libertas.org is where you can find out about our think tank and see all the work that we're doing there. If you're curious about the Tuttle twins, books, they're all on Amazon, but the cheaper place and better place to get it is Tuttle twins.com, where we'll give you free workbooks and all kinds of fun stuff to engage with us there and buy the books directly from us. So Tuttle, twins.com. We're all over social media on all the platforms. So you can search Tuttle twins there. And if you're looking to get a hold of me, Connor boy app.com is where you can find me.
Brian Nichols 27:16
Awesome. All right, folks, well, how about this, we'll make it really easy for you to we'll include all those links in the show notes. If you're listening to the audio version, which I said 90 plus percent of you are so all you got to do click the artwork and your podcast catcher is gonna bring you over to the Brian Nichols show.com where you can find today's episode Plus, you can find all you ready for this 600 other episodes we have here over the what for almost five years now. Wow of The Brian Nichols Show. So folks, head over there. And if you haven't had the chance to hit subscribe. What are you doing? And by the way, did you know we have a video version of the show? I head over to YouTube to Odyssey and yes now to rumble wherever you go get your content just do me a favor hit that subscribe button as well and hit that little notification bell so you're not missing a single time a new video goes live. So when that being said thank you for joining us folks on this lovely lovely Tuesday. With that being said it's Brian Nichols signing off. You're on The Brian Nichols Show for Connor boy Jack.
Unknown Speaker 28:09
We'll see you tomorrow for listening to The Brian Nichols Show. Find more episodes at the Brian Nichols show.com
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Connor Boyack founded Libertas Institute in 2011 and serves as its president. Named one of Utah’s most politically influential people by The Salt Lake Tribune, Connor’s leadership has led to dozens of legislative victories spanning a wide range of areas such as privacy, government transparency, property rights, drug policy, education, personal freedom, and more.
A public speaker and author of over 30 books, he is best known for The Tuttle Twins books, a children’s series introducing young readers to economic, political, and civic principles. A California native and Brigham Young University graduate, Connor lives in Lehi, Utah, with his wife and two children.
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