Dec. 27, 2021

419: Let's Talk Omicron -with Dr. Eric Larson

419: Let's Talk Omicron -with Dr. Eric Larson

Mass hysteria and weaponized hypochondria have no place in healthcare.


Dr. Eric Larson has seen some of the worst of the pandemic over the nearly 2 years that have passed since mass hysteria hit the world in early-2020.

 

But with the new Omicron variant sweeping the globe (and seemingly pushing the dreaded Delta variant to the side), could this be a light at the end of the tunnel?

 

Is this thing actually coming to an end?

 

Dr. Larson gives his take, plus takes on the arrogance of Dr. Fauci and the insanity of vaccine mandates in light of Omicron.

 

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Transcript

Brian Nichols  
Well, happy Friday there, folks, Brian Nichols here on The Brian Nichols Show. And thank you for joining us on another fun filled episode. I am as always your humble host. And today we have a returning guest. But we're going to be talking about some some topical stuff in terms of what's in the news, but also some interesting life events happening here in the greater life of one Dr. Eric Larson. Welcome back to The Brian Nichols Show. Hey, Brian,

Dr. Eric Larson  
thanks so much for having me back on.

Brian Nichols  
Absolutely. Dr. Eric Larson, thank you for joining the program. Thank you for joining the we are libertarians network, you are bringing your awesome show the paradox here to the greater network, we are so excited to have you because you're bringing a much needed voice right now in an era of medical hysteria. So that being said, Eric, what's been going on in your life besides obviously joining us here on the we are libertarians network?

Dr. Eric Larson  
I have no idea what you're talking about. When you talk about medical hysteria. Is there something going on in the country that I'm aware of?

Brian Nichols  
Yeah, you know, I remember is that there's this this event? Kovin covad? It's something like that.

Dr. Eric Larson  
Yeah, no, I am very excited during the network, it's gonna be I'm really looking forward to getting access to new new listeners. And I think I bring a fresh, interesting sort of perspective of things. Obviously, I'm a medical physician, physician. So I've got some background in medicine, and tackle, not only COVID, which we've done a lot this last year and a half. But looking at other things, too. I mean, we look at the health care system, market solutions to solving problems. And I think the one thing that's excited me most about my show I started in 2018. It's one thing that's very unexpected, is that I'm much more encouraged by the healthcare system than I was when I started. I was very, as very pessimistic about through the direction and consolidation of healthcare and, you know, nationalization those issues, but I've seen and talked to so many people who are finding innovative ways of solving problems in healthcare, despite all the regulatory burden the bureaucracy. And so I bring that to the show. Obviously, the highlight some problems and COVID being the largest one recently. But anyway, I think there's a there's a lot of things people can learn. Even if they're not in the field, if they're in the field, obviously, they have a better deeper understanding of the problems they're facing, why their problems and people who bring solutions to it,

Brian Nichols  
which is so important right now, because people are looking actively for solutions. It just feels again, we were just talking about this off air. And sometimes I feel we should record when we're just having those casual conversations. Yeah, cuz I mean, I've talked about this on the show here to the audience. I'm currently in the process of packing up shop and heading out to the Midwest to get out of the Northeast, because let's just be real. You look at the areas right now, as we're recording here on Tuesday, I think it was Boston just said that they're going to be putting in a VAX mandate for it think it's anything in regards to restaurants, anything in regards to fitness centers? Yeah, the list goes on. Lori Lightfoot in Chicago added her name to the list we had here in Philadelphia, Phil Kenny, he put Philadelphia on the map. And obviously, this all started here in the United States, really with New York City. And actually, that's not true LA I think kind of I was gonna say they kind of tipped that initial domino with what they did with the schools. So we're seeing it really start to hit the big cities. And we just saw President Biden here, do an entire speech, talking about the upcoming winter of death destruction for the unvaccinated. Now, Eric, we were talking beforehand, and you openly and in somewhat optimistically, were saying, you know, it feels like it's kind of done. It's kind of it's kind of wrapping up. And I feel that as well. And yet, no one needs to go any further than just turning on the television. And you will have talking heads from your favorite three letter news organization screaming at you about why you should be terrified about this new Omicron variant that's out there. So let's go to a medical professional because yes, I know, I am surprised as well that there is in fact, mass medical hysteria. It seems hypochondria has run amok. So let's maybe set the record straight. Is Omicron something that we need to be red alert, or is it actually a blessing in disguise as we go towards the end of this pandemic?

Dr. Eric Larson  
I I guess, the correct answer to say we don't know yet. It's still too early. But all indications are that this is actually probably the, the solution we need. don't deserve but we're going to get to the pandemic. I think, you know, when it comes to the SARS cov two, which is what causes COVID-19. It's a Coronavirus. What do you have to remember is that you have to get infected with it or you have to develop cellular immunity, which means you have to be infected or have been vaccinated in order to protect yourself from serious adverse events. We can debate over what's better getting vaccinated or, you know, actually infected as far as your immunity but either way, there's no question that if you've not been exposed to it that the worst time the worst infections could be the First time you get it, and then subsequent infections are probably going to be more mild. Once you've had the initial infection or vaccination, then it's going to be better. The nice thing is we've seen with the source code to from its original wild type, they're calling now the before Alpha before delta and all the lambdas. And all the ones in between. And now we're up to Omicron is that you've seen a virus that it becomes more fit in the in nature, which means that it's more likely to transmit and replicate within you and get to the next person, right. So that's all the virus cares about is getting to next person and surviving. And the ones that are most successful at that are going to be the ones that become dominant strains. And you saw that with delta, which was more infectious, and suddenly, all the other strains of COVID Basically just disappeared, it was just delta. And that's pretty much all it's been in this country for a couple months now. We've seen the virulence or the danger of the virus and how much it gets people in hospital puts in the ICU, etc. was pretty much the same, it didn't really change much from the wild type. Maybe it's a little bit better, maybe a little bit worse for delta, it's kind of it's not enough to that really can tell. Usually, you expect the viruses over time become more infectious, meaning the ones that are better able to replicating and transferred another person, get him infected and then goes to the next person, etc, etc, that those will take over. But that they also are they tend to be less virulent, they tend to be less, less dangerous to to a person who gets it. That usually takes a lot of time Coronavirus generally don't as far as we know where we previously knew. But you know, we again, we haven't seen a pandemic of Coronavirus, since probably 1890s, which we didn't know what it was at the time, that was probably the Russian flu people talk about. So we don't really know how fast it mutates our assumption was it takes quite a while. And it looks like it doesn't. Because Omicron has 34 mutations from the wild type on the spy protein, there are 110 things that can mutate. And they're 34 changes makes it much more much better at infecting people, but much poor, it seems in effect you and your lungs and your little respite, which is what gets you in trouble, right? When you get lower respiratory infection. It just sits in your sinus, your nose, it's just a cold. And so this certainly looks like a cold, it a bad cold probably. And you look at the numbers in South Africa. And now we're seeing kind of some early data out of Denmark by every indication, now this, this, this Omicron is kind of wiping out delta, it's just like totally replacing it. And it seems to be much less virulent, which means that if you get it, you're much less likely to get sick, obviously evades immune systems, and that's always gonna be the case with any of these coronaviruses you're always going to be able to get infected. And even if you've been vaccinated, even if you've had it before, we know this right? Once you've had a cold, whether it's an adenovirus retrovirus, you are immune to that specific cold for a while, we know that right? You get it, it goes, it's going through your community, you don't get like the same code four times in, you know, the span of a month. But you can get it six months later, or a year or two later, when it comes back to your community. There are obviously lots of viruses that cause colds and colds can be caused by lots of different types. But anyway, I think what we're seeing, I believe, and again, we won't know probably for another three to four weeks really to know feel common about this, but I think Omicron is clearly taking over and it's gonna wipe out delta. Is it less virulent? Probably. And if it is, the really cool thing about this is that the general immune response you have to any of these SARS, cope twos variants from the wild type two alpha delta. Now Omicron is that your general immune response for the Preventing serious illness is going to be robust with any of those. So the nice thing is, if this is what is really, that doesn't hurt you much it doesn't get people in the ICU who haven't been previously exposed or have immunity, it's gonna be very mild course probably. And they will certainly they will have the protection that they would get if they had been vaccinated, or if they had

been infected previously. So they actually be well protected from bad outcomes from carpet now, it's possible to that SARS code to will never get as virulent as it was before, maybe we got to the worst of it. And this is the new one and all iterations from here, we're going to be more mild. So it's potentially gonna get everybody infected, or most people or anybody who had dodged costars code to up to this point, they're going to get it. And they're going to develop immunity. And probably there'll be, they'll do pretty well. And they're not going to have that we're not going to have the hospitals getting gummed up. That of course, is all dependent on our policy to which we can discuss a little bit.

Brian Nichols  
Well, and right there. I mean, the policy hasn't really reflected it seems what's been happening. And this is this is just government one on one if we ever need to talk to our friends who are a little bit more in the well, why not look to government to be the answer to the problem. Because what we're seeing right now we're seeing real time with your new real time analysis. other doctors out there who are seeing this real time I think it was the South Africa doctor who discovered this, who was raising the alarm to the raising of the alarm in how insane it was. So we have right now the opportunity to say, no, no, no, no, no. Like, let let's not go down this this rabbit hole of worst case scenario, let's actually look and see, number one, what has actually happened in the past. And we can map out what we will see happening. I think this is the first time honestly, Eric, in the in the past two years, we've had some real positive outlooks going towards the outcomes of COVID. But back to what you were saying. The government policies, right, the government policies aren't actually following suit with what we're seeing real time to that person and say, Look at what you're seeing right now government can't react to what's happening real time. So we see right now, I mentioned this earlier, all these different cities with these blue, your blue blue mayors, and you're seeing in blue states like New York State with Governor Kathy Hoko, who are putting in Vax mandates and such it's it's scary. I say that as somebody from formerly from New York City, or from New York State, rather not New York City, but living in Philadelphia and seeing what has happened, what has transpired in just two short years, Eric, so we're seeing into your point, the policy, having implications on the people across the board from the COVID perspective. But let's talk about the non COVID medical issues really quickly, too, because this is something I don't think has been discussed enough. We talked about this. On my show, I forget who it was I had my program, I think maybe it was back Kibby. May is Dan Mitchell is back right when COVID started, we were discussing the negative impacts of these lockdowns that took place in response from a policy perspective. And one of the red flags that was raised up was people who would not be going to the hospital to do preventative care, people who would not be going to the hospital to do routine checkups. And I'm hearing and I would love to hear your real life experience and such is that a lot of that is now starting to rear its ugly head, we're starting to see the impact of these, you know, either his cancers or name, the disease that was underlying that was there, but wasn't being addressed now starting to impact the individual. And it's actually playing a role in exacerbating the strain on the hospital system. So Eric, is that something that you're seeing in your hospitals as well?

Dr. Eric Larson  
Well, that's a hard thing to answer, because I still think we're too far out to really know these know that. Which is not a satisfying answer, except to say that we are way behind in preventive care measures. I mean, I was talking to the colorectal surgeons the other day, and they are 10s of 1000s of colonoscopies behind it to the point where you'll never catch up, right? I mean, you're just you're basically saying we're all going to be about six months behind for a while for a couple years, and are people just going to not get their colonoscopy. So there would clearly be some some ramifications from that. Our surgical schedule is significantly reduced right now, because of we just don't have any beds. Now. That's how she responds to COVID. itself. That is, and staffing issues, but mostly COVID at this point. So we're struggling with that, Brian. But I mean, when it comes to government policies that make no sense, I would like to offer my governor in Michigan, it's a prime example of sort of the ridiculous nature of these policies when, when they first when this whole lockdown, stuff started back in April of 2020. I could get in a boat in Michigan, that didn't have a motor like a canoe, but I couldn't get a boat that had a motor, or I could go to a store that sells paint. But I couldn't go to a store that sells lots of stuff, including paint, I could go down the aisle that sells paint in that in that store. I mean, these are the kinds of crazy policies that that when you try and use large, you're the large, I guess it's like everything looks like a nail, if all you have is a hammer. And I feel like that's a lot of what the government policy is it's clunky. And right now, despite our government in many occasions, saying that they're not pursuing a zero COVID policy, which means that you can't that understanding that source code to will be endemic, you can't eliminate it. They still pursue policy choices that are towards preventing transmission, which makes no sense, right, like me from as simple as a masked mandate to vaccine mandates, vaccine passports. These are all measures or travel restrictions. These are all measures that are designed to stop the transmission and the spread of the virus, which we know we can do. And as soon as the government has an opportunity to win, there's Omicron SciTech in South Africa. any thinking person, at least watching this, this pandemic rageful, last couple of years, had to have known that Omicron was all over the world at that point, by the time someone actually sequence in and as fast as thing as reproducing. There's no way that it wasn't in this country. And of course, we still have these travel restrictions in place, which is one of the problems of these government policies, right. Once they once you initiate them. They're really hard to remove. Because there's always like, well, maybe it helps and so why don't we just keep it but It causes massive disruption with your with lives, people who have family overseas. And of course, you know, all the local restrictions which are economically crippling, they are caused all kinds of mental health issues. There, there's a there's a scores of problems that are caused by these things, especially with especially frustrating is that they don't really serve any purpose. They're not actually accomplishing anything. And anyone who is a thinking person has got to realize that these these are sort of for show these are, it's like a charade.

Brian Nichols  
I think more and more people are starting to wake up Eric to the fact that what they were being told by, and unfortunately, this was just the way that it happened was these government bureaucrats were presented as that just the science, like like, if you question these, these people in our positions of power, you're anti science, you're not just a skeptic, You're a kook, you're deep platformed, you're embarrassed. And I mean, we've seen families, friendships just crumble because of the insanity that has happened over the past few years. And yet, and I kind of laugh when I say this, you know, we here follow the science go follow the science guys. And yet, when we look at the actual science, and we see the clear course of action, we're doing the exact opposite. We're we're actually ignoring the science, we're slapping science in the face, we're slapping the scientific method in the face, and it's out. Or another way to really define it, Eric, other than religious almost it feels like we've gotten to the point where people can't remove the past from where we're going, like they've bought too hard into the narrative. And now it's it's a blind faith. And it would almost require like, you know, kind of this this I know how to use dit to put into words like you're almost relinquishing your past self right? You're you're taking that it's like when anak to do that another Star Wars reference by no Steven gets in the audience. And thank you. It's like when I'm when I can goes from being a Jedi to being a Sith. And he makes the switch and he devotes himself to, you know, Emperor Palpatine. Now, am I saying, our friends who are in you know, the kind of that would say that COVID? Cult? I'm sorry, are they comparable to Siths? No. However, I think it is important for us to at least acknowledge that this is the mentality that has taken onboard. So let me ask you this. And this is partly why what you're doing over the paradox is so important. What's the way we can get people to take a step back? And we've talked about it here in the show you how can we get them to start to say, and openly acknowledge that they were wrong, I would say it starts with us giving them some empathy, like give them some empathy rope and say, hey, we'll help you along the way. But how do we actually get people to that point, and I would ask you, Eric, because you do have the profession, his professional experience behind your your, you know, to be able to discuss this, but also the fact that you're talking to people every single day, you're helping them make medical decisions that are, you know, very personal, very important. But at the same point in time, they trust you. And and I, you know, I would daresay as we've you know, had people here in the audience, you've reached out saying that they appreciate the work that you've been doing this part of the reason we have you in the greater network is because you're been doing so well. And people are looking to people like you for some some actual guidance. So let's give them some actual guidance here. What can we do to those people who are in that kind of mentality? Or how can we help get them back on this path?

Dr. Eric Larson  
I think your your first point was a good one, that we have to be empathetic to people and and understand why they're, they're afraid. And I think I think that's the key is recognizing they're afraid, and they've, whether they think they're right or wrong to be afraid. I think that's important to recognize and to acknowledge, and then to say, and then not to initially, when you meet someone to say that they're wrong, that should never be that way you should meet them away, or find out what their concerns are. And you know, data and information is only going to be so useful, right? When it comes to persuasion. Stories are certainly useful, you know, you know, 20 people who had it, they all were fine or something like that. Those are, but it's going to come down to providing information, showing yourself as someone who's who has humility, somebody said, you know, I don't really know, like, when you ask me the Omicron, and like, I think it's better, but I won't know for a little while. And I'm, I'm humble enough to know that I can't know all that. And anyone who comes out you and says that they know what's going on. And was does not own the fact that they're wrong about certain things, I think is really important. And so I think you just have to say, I understand why people think this. I used to think that and that's also a good way a good strategy is you know, I used to think I was really worried about touching doorknobs and stuff like that I realized, you know, they came out with data to show that it was aerosol it was it's not something that can be transported surfaces. So there's no reason to like deep clean and stuff. There's probably in we know, with all the mass studies that they've shown that they've been relatively ineffective, Natalie, from, you know, empirically from, you know, looking at different areas that have mass mandates, but also looking at previous studies that have looked for using mass for like flu epidemics and flu, we know it transmits. Now, we know, transmitted in aerosolized way, just like COVID. So there's no reason to think that a mask solution, like a regular surgical cloth mask would solve anything. And then the real important thing is, I think you just need to try and break down the fear. Because once the fear is out of the way, people can think rationally, when people are afraid, they they don't hear what you're saying. Classic thing in medicines, if soon as someone says, oh, you know, you've got cancer, you can say 100 Other things, right? You can give them the you're so scared number, you can give them the passwords here, your bank account, they won't remember any of it, because they heard cancer. And that's the end of the discussion. So you have to be very, you have to get past that fear. And that may just take providing evidence and safe. Lots of kids have this. My wife's a pediatrician, she's always talking to parents, the two conversations one is people don't want COVID Real, they don't believe it's ever happened or that they can avoid it or something like that. She has to tell them that, no, you're going to get COVID. That's okay. I mean, most kids are totally fine with it. And then you have to convince the other people who are terrified and think this is like Ebola, and this is the black plague, and there's a 30% mortality rate for their kids. And that's just not true. And you just have to provide the information. But you have to acknowledge the fact that they are scared and they're not coming at this for nefarious reasons that they're trying, you know, that there's some sort of power play. It is very tribal, right? I mean, these groups in this, the groups that we take on, whether you know, Team Blue, Team Red or something like that, it's it is part of our identity, and to shed your identity is not a not a small task, right? So you have to let people really arrive there on their own. And so unlikely Are you going to have a conversation with someone and totally convinced them, they're gonna change your mind. But you plant the seed, you say, Hey, I'm with you, I understand I had the same fears of you know, my, my parents, my grandparents getting sick. And I looked at it, you know, I'm less concerned, they get vaccinated, or they've had an infection. So I know that you had some protection, and the worst is behind us. And now with this new variant, it looks like it's even better, it's gonna be infectious. I expect people to get infected. And so I think, you know, we start with you start with the premise of things that they agree with you, then you can, you know, you can move on to give them better information. And I think, you know, the other thing that's been very helpful for me is, is I talked to my friend, Dave Graham, who's an infectious disease doctor in Billings, Montana back in April, and I, you know, I, I will admit, I'm an anesthesiologist, right, I don't I know a lot of about a little. I know a little about a lot of stuff, I guess, I should put it, because you have to kind of know everything in medicine, but you can't know in depth, like immunology and stuff. And quite frankly, immunology is a class I took in med school. It's not like something I spent a lot of time in, I have preoperative antibiotics. And that's kind of like the center. I don't do any ICU work or something. But we talked about COVID. And we and everything we predicted back in April, almost everything has come true. It's like it's kind of Emmys feel like a genius. But then you kind of like, in many ways is pretty simple. Like if you just sat back and thought about but if you didn't sort of suck into the hole, all the panic, but I found that because I was right. I've been right, so much for the last year and a half like, this is going to happen, we're gonna be vaccinated, but just so you know, we're still gonna get infected, it's not going anywhere. It's still endemic, people like no, we're gonna prevent the transmission and will not get infected ever again. And now people are coming around to, and what's gonna, what will happen if you get people honest information, and you're not expecting Corinne that day, they'll say, Oh, well, he's right about three straight things. And it's kind of got exactly the way he thought it was gonna go. Maybe I should start thinking about it. And that's the only way you pull back. And outside of the people who there are the leaders of the tribe, they start pulling back. And the hardest part for those guys is that they have to accept the fact that they are wrong. And you know, owning mistakes is not something that anyone in politics, who ever wants to do, especially if you have and especially the main sort of somewhat devastating, you know, mistakes, like closing schools or closing down businesses, those are hard things to walk back and say, you know, my bad. I don't know how you do that as a leader. I mean, I think just due to Mia culpa and just say that's just the way it's going to be and I think you could save yourself. I think there could be some significant political ramifications for these people. Maybe they can convince people that they save lives. But, and they will convince people that, you know, already on their side, but I think it's gonna be really hard for them to convince people who have had their lives ruined or changed significantly. And they kind of like, did we did all this and it's where exactly were we had we done? Nothing? I mean, right. Yeah,

Brian Nichols  
no, oh, and this is, this is why it's so important for you to speak truth always. I, I kind of smile at the fact I can look back to my entire archives over the past two years, and have zero episodes in mind that I'm like, man, we really got that wrong. We really, really got that wrong on COVID. I think there's maybe one thing I got wrong. And it was my looking at the Delta vary. I thought it was going to peak and then go down because we looked at Florida. And that's what happened in Florida. But I think what happened was, it was Florida because Florida has approached that the entire virus entirely different from every other state pretty much from the onset. So I mean, hey, kudos to Governor Ron DeSantis, for leading the charge really, and doing things differently. Because he got me wrong on Delta, originally, when I was looking at him as leading the charge in terms of you know, what states would likely follow suit. And hey, you know, there's a reason that Florida is still standing strong. Now granted, omachron I keep on saying anacron. It's like, I know, yeah, you want to go the transformer. But no omachron Is, is definitely hitting people who are double triple Vax team. I mean, we just saw Cory Booker, Elizabeth Warren, Jim Cramer, you go down the list of the noted lefties that are out there who are getting hit left and right in the narratives are falling. And this is why we are you know, it is so important that we are out there constantly speaking the truth. Because when people are looking to say, okay, you know, and that's the other thing too, not the tribal folks, the folks that are out there who are genuinely looking for a different way of doing things because they're, they're taking the mask off. They're literally and figuratively. They're looking to move forward, and you're looking for people that they can trust. Anthony Fauci. So our friend Philip Stutz, he is from the undefeated marketing book, he wrote the podcast, the undefeated, undefeated marketing podcast, and his organization releases a bunch of data every single year. And the data that is released this year, we're talking about the the pandemic, for obvious sake, from a marketing perspective. And you know, what blew me away is that Anthony Fauci went from being one of the most trusted man in America in 2020, to one of the least trusted men in America in less than one years time. He's in the 30% range, which is just amazing. It how quickly, you can see somebody lose that trust, lose that credibility, because you can just go back even name, name, the the video compilation, you can go to, and reference that shows him being so consistently wrong. Whereas you and I have treasure troves of audio behind us a mean 40 minute hour, two hour long podcast, where we are not only talking about these issues in high level ways, but we're putting a lot of, you know, our reputations on the line, because we're making bold predictions, but they're not really bold, Eric, and that maybe we can wrap here as we go towards the end of the show, is, if you were just to look at what you did in April, what we've been trying to do back, you know, when this all started in March of 2020, just look at the data, and try to objectively analyze things, and then look at what's happened in the past, try to use some, some reason, some inference, and maybe have the ability to not react like a Screaming Banshee, every five seconds as something bad happens and take a step back, that we can kind of know where this was going to go. And those who have been actually looking at that data and speaking, as much have been shown time and again, right, the folks that the Great Barrington declaration had been shown to be right, you have been shown to be right, yours truly, and a number of the guests that we've had here in the program have been shown to the right, and we don't have to, you know, go out and just rub that in people's faces. But more so when people are looking for information, simply have that there as informed information. And also as a resource, which to the last point, Eric is, is that's what you're doing. It's a paradox. So we want make sure we're leaving the show here with a call to action, your show paradox. It's been a tried and true classic. And now yes, as I mentioned, it is joining us here on the we are libertarians network. So let's go here, final thoughts for the episode some words of advice you'd like to leave the audience with? And then obviously, where can folks go ahead and subscribe to paradox and follow you over on social media?

Dr. Eric Larson  
Yeah, thanks, Brian. I think you know, the word I like to leave is I think in many ways, we're very likely the United States because we do have a federal system. And we have seen that because of the federal system that we have states reacting differently to this pandemic. Florida's a great example, because it's obvious the most populous state in Texas and to some extent, as well, that they serve as counter examples to what's done in California, New York and write this we, as libertarians, we say, Oh, well, you know, if we have different tax policies, people tend to move places that have better business climate or better personal freedom climates and, and that people make these decisions. You're here, good example that right, you're leaving, you're leaving Pennsylvania for Indiana for this same reason. But because of that, we were able to sort of have mini experiments and this is exactly what the framers had intended. So we have counter examples to bad policy, right? If we were say, Austrian, I'm all I'm not exactly 100% familiar with these countries and how they're governed. But my pressure at least from outside is looking at France, UK and these are Have these much more centralized governments and you see a centralized response. So the whole country sort of experiences things the same way. Where's the United States? Well, what's going on New York City is very different than what's going on in Oklahoma City. Right. And I think and you know, or what's going on in Oklahoma City is different than what's going on Enid, Oklahoma, right. And so you, when you look at rural or an urban and different states, you see a, you can see that, oh, this works, or this makes a difference, it doesn't make a difference. And I think that's been very powerful in shedding the scales. For a lot of people they see, they have relatives who live someplace like in South Carolina, and the kids are in school, and their kids have been virtual, or they've been, you know, eating, they can't talk or something at lunch, or they have to eat outside of me crazy policies that don't make any sense, right. And they see that, that there's no point to it. And I think that is that helps erode this the system, and it provides much robust, more robust way of gathering information and understanding what is truth. I mean, I don't pretend to have the truth. But I think you know, collectively, when we have different experiments going on all the time, we have a much better opportunity of arriving at the best practice and the truth when it comes to science or policy. So I, you know, that's kind of my show, where people ask me all the time in the or like, how do you find guests? What do you talk about? Like, I just talk about things I find interesting. And people I want to learn about why the health care system works and why it doesn't work, and what are people doing to fix it? I want to learn about COVID? Well, I'm not a immunologist. I'm not an epidemiologist. So I got some on. But I didn't find people who were, I would say, kooky. And one way or the other, I just got people who would thoughtfully sort of answer questions. And we arrived at what I think was pretty good consensus of the truth. And we've been pretty accurate as far as where things are going and where things are right now. So that's kind of the show, it's not for, it's for someone who is delay public. So we don't get too much in the jargon. But it's also for people who are in the industry, like, you know, physicians or nurses, physical therapists, whatever, you're going to be able to have a better understanding of why you can't deliver the care you want, and maybe ways to fix it. And for people who are going to the doctor, which is all of us at some point, why doesn't the system work? Well, what's the problem? And is there anything I can do about it? Or is there other certain things I can look for to try and solve those problems? So that's what we do the paradox. And it's a, just a weekly show, and I you know, I recommend anyone go check it out. You can find any podcast player, it's pra do CS. So it's a little bit of play on words for paradox. I try and talk to a doctor but not always, usually some who's related obviously. And we cover everything I try not to do just COVID because it will drive me insane. I talk about COVID everyday in the O R, that's all anyone wants to talk about. Nurses always asked me if you vaccinate all these things, I I do enjoy talking about it, but because it's a puzzle, but I don't want to just focus entirely on it. Because there's so much other cool stuff that's going to healthcare. It's exciting are an unexciting is that sounds actually there's really cool stuff that's going on that I highly encourage people to check out. You can find me on Twitter at at the paradox show. Also Instagram, although I don't think I ever post there really. But in Facebook too.

Brian Nichols  
There comes a point and this isn't sales as well, right, Eric is that when you identify the problem, people also want to see if there's a solution. So that's why it's so indicative on us to not just complain all the time and that's why it's so important for us to keep building the solutions we've been building it's important for us to keep speaking the truth like we've been speaking and for us to keep supporting people like you who are in the medical field and are speaking the truth especially when the the consensus has been so against those out there who are taking you know the the bullets taking the arrows and they're going out and fighting the good fight. So that being said, thank you on all accords for all you're doing here for not only us, we are libertarians that work but also the greater liberty movement. So that being said, Folks, if you would do me a favor, please head over to your podcast catcher. As soon as this episode wraps up, head to the paradox, hit the subscribe button so you're not missing a single episode. And also make sure if you could do me a favor if you enjoy the episode today, give it a share. And when you do make sure you go ahead and give Dr. Eric Larson a tag as well. And folks, if you enjoyed the episode really truly enjoyed it. Make sure you click the artwork, go to the Brian Nichols show.com You can check out today's episode, like I said, includes all the transcript from today's episode, but also go ahead and give us a five star rating and review helps us reach more people and it has more value to help us show what you get as a member of our audience here for every single episode here on The Brian Nichols Show. So with that being said, thank you for joining us on The episode is Dr. Eric Larsen. The paradox joining us on today's episode with that being said Brian co signing off with The Brian Nichols Show Dr. Eric Larson thanks during the program. Thanks a lot

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