On today's episode of The Brian Nichols Show, I'm joined once again by Mike ter Maat! However... this time, he's announced that he's seeking to be the Libertarian Party candidate for 2024!
"I think that the big basket, of course, is that the Democratic Party and the and the Republican Party have gone off the rails in terms of their respect for the Constitution.
They hate each other so much that they are willing to do anything to suppress each other, including lying to the media - they're authoritarian bent is really coming to fruition.
Both parties now claim that the other is fraudulent, that others are cheating and that their presidential wins are not legitimate. Neither party cares about the Constitution anymore. And, and that comes to bear in people's lives in very real ways.
And not just because people are sick of hearing them make fools of themselves on television, although that's pretty significant."
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Brian Nichols 0:15
Instead of focusing on winning arguments, we're teaching the basic fundamentals of sales and marketing and how we can use them to win in the world of politics, teaching you how to meet people where they're at on the issues they care about. Welcome to The Brian Nichols Show. Well, happy Thursday there, folks, Brian Nichols here on The Brian Nichols Show. Thank you for joining us on of course, another fun filled episode. I am as always your humble host. And today, we're having a guest returned to the show who I dare say I've heard this from many a member of our audience that he brought more energy than I did in the episode I was on. I'll tell you why. It's because I'm sharing a row home in Philadelphia, Mike turma. Welcome back to The Brian Nichols Show.
Mike ter Maat 0:57
Thank you very much. I promised not to out energy you today you are on top of your game, as always,
Brian Nichols 1:04
no, no, no, no, I encourage you to out energy me because I mean, when I was in Philadelphia, sometimes I'd have to rely on my guests to energy me because I mean, peek behind the curtain. The old studio back in the day in Philadelphia was in a room in my row home in Philadelphia, which would share a wall with somebody right next door and they'd be watching TV. And I'd be like, oh, yeah, if I can hear them, they can definitely hear me. So I kept that down a little bit. But I know Michael, I'm so excited to have you now. We're officially in Indiana in the brand new. Yes. Studio 77 studios here for The Brian Nichols Show. And we are looking forward to having you on the program. Because you have some exciting news. I know last time you were running for Congress down in Florida, not only have you personally moved, but now you're making moves. And you're running for president as a libertarian. Mike terma. Tell us what's been going on?
Mike ter Maat 1:49
That's exactly right. We're making it known today that my team and I are launching a campaign for the nomination for president for the Libertarian Party. We're very, very excited about it. We know that this is very early. We think that that fits with our overall strategy of having an important story to tell and making up a deficit in terms of name recognition. But we believe that we are going to have the singular campaign with the combination that we do have a background in terms of decades and public policy and public service, a complicated story to tell in the sense that we're going to be out there with very, very bold messaging, biting off the big issues, the Libertarian Party has been behind traditionally, and, and recently, and to back all of that up with very real world solutions, the kinds of solutions I think I can bring to bear as a practitioner for for so many years. As a law enforcement officer and as an economist.
Brian Nichols 2:48
Now, we could obviously regurgitate your entire history and bio, but we have an entire episode of that where we had you on the first program, discussing your candidacy back again for congressional roll down in Florida. But for the new audience member here who maybe didn't get the chance to hear that conversation yet. Mike, give us the SparkNotes version? Who is Mike termagant? And how on earth did you find yourself in this position, you're running for president as a libertarian.
Mike ter Maat 3:14
just dumb luck. Always take dumb luck over talent. Brian, I can I can promise you it works better. My career was in banking and finance and as an economist for many, many years, Austrian trained school and the rational expectations model, and my PhD and a couple of other advanced degrees in the 80s and 90s. I worked for the White House for a while I was a university professor in economics for a while I even taught public school for a while. In, in Florida. I was an entrepreneur, I was in the business of teaching bankers for many years, about what was going on in the in the industry. As a second career of sorts. I became a police officer about a dozen years ago, retired last year and left Florida. I'm now in Virginia and very happy about that. And we have put together now, a team of people who believe as I do, that, we need to make a strong bold case that the Libertarian Party needs to focus on how we reach out beyond our own borders to the rest of the United States. And do so with bold messaging, big bold objectives, and to back that up in very realistic fashion to be able to address the issues that people care about in their own lives on a personal level.
Brian Nichols 4:43
It's I think, the responsibility of us too. And I talked about this in the show all the time, meet people where they're at on the issues they care about and I think we've seen far too often our presidential nominees echo back the things that they want to hear be the issues versus out there, what the actual issues are that the American people are facing. And I'm not going to pick on any particular nominee in the past, but I've heard, you know, many libertarian nominee or candidate in the past list off the 15 different libertarian items that they're gonna bring to Washington, which if I'm a traditional voter, Mike, I'm hitting the snooze button at least two or three more times here. So help help us wake up and help us focus on the top issue that you're gonna be bringing from a libertarian perspective to the American electorate. What are you seeing right now? Are those top issues? And how would you message them as a Libertarian Presidential nominee,
Mike ter Maat 5:36
I think that the big basket, of course, is that the Democratic Party and the and the Republican Party have gone off the rails in terms of their respect for the Constitution, they hate each other so much, that they are willing to do anything to suppress each other, including lying to the media, they're authoritarian bent is really coming to fruition. Both parties now claim that the other is fraudulent, that others are cheating and that their presidential wins are not legitimate. Neither party cares about the Constitution anymore. And, and that comes to bear in people's lives in very real ways. And not just because people are sick of hearing them make fools of themselves on television, although that's pretty significant. You know, the, the whole position and attitude of the United States military interventionism the past, well, I was gonna say, past 20 years, but it goes back a lot farther than that, in my lifetime, most of your listeners won't remember Vietnam the way that that I do, and the intervention since then. But we have a long history of not doing right by American principles, not doing right by the American economy, and not doing right by our relationships and how we portray ourselves in the world. And I think that that embarrasses Americans more and more, and holds us back in any number of ways. So international foreign policy is a big one for the Libertarian Party and ought to be, it's an example of where we need to do a better job of stepping people through the various issues that we see are important to, you know, when you throw out there that we believe that we need to exit NATO that's going to make a lot of people are scared. And I think a lot of hand holding is going to be necessary to explain how and why. And how that is going to be communicated how we're going to continue to work with our partners. We are not an isolationist nation, we are not an isolationist party, we will continue to work with the rest of the world, in building up economies and international trade, stand by our principles. We're a pro immigration and pro immigrant nation and party. So that's a big ball of wax that has to be promoted hard. And then of course, as an economist, my bread and butter is the fact that the monetary policy the Fed has pursued for three generations now has got to stop, we need to end fundamentally the Fed, and do so in a way that protects our currency and the value of our money. And I have a three point plan to do that. So we're going to be talking about that a lot. I used to work for the White House Office of Management and Budget. So I know that it's important to cap federal spending as a primary objective, and I know how to go about doing that as well.
Brian Nichols 8:38
So let's talk about when we're talking about these issues to your average person, because and you were mentioning this here and there, you broke the Fed, for example, your average person will hear this and then they will be interested. But sometimes it gets difficult to see how they can see the correlation in real life. So let's take these issues. And let's break it down. You know, you are onstage it's you, Joe Biden, and Rhonda Santas or Donald Trump one of those two. And you are having the opportunity to speak to the American audience and American electorate and speak not just about libertarian ideas, but to differentiate those ideas and to meet people on the issues that they care about. So yeah, what would you say as you're going through, again, the issues that you brought up here, and if you could maybe outline a few of them in the way that you communicate that to the American electorate?
Mike ter Maat 9:30
Absolutely. In terms of, you know, the economy, we have to stop politicizing the way we go about fiscal policy and monetary policy. The reason we're headed into a recession right now, is not because we haven't had enough government intervention, it's because we've had too much and now we're in a situation where the Fed even if it had the correct tools and all the smarts in the world, can't get us out of it. The A White House has been in the business of politicizing how we spend money for decades and decades and decades. And it doesn't help. One of the things that I've spent many, many years researching and working in both as a police officer and as an economist, is how do we break the endless cycle of intergenerational poverty. This is the result of bad government policy. It's the result of bad schools that are protected by monopolies, bad zoning and housing ordinances, bad subsidization our government's intervention in everything from family structure to education. And we need to get out of that and and let people develop their lives in a healthier, more efficient and more robust fashion. So we need to appeal back and how interventionist our government is, in terms of monetary policy. Now, we even politicize that the White House is always working on the Fed to get more money pumped into the economy, and the Fed just cannot resist getting involved. The Federal tell you that they're not a political organization, but they need to always look over their shoulder and protect themselves and their power position by doing whatever they can to protect us from the next recession. And yet they contribute to it in so many ways by undermining the value of our currency year after year. So we need to replace all this discretion the Fed has that they used to involve themselves in politics, with fairly simple rules about how the growth of our money stocks should be managed. These are old Milton Friedman ideas, but we wouldn't push them, of course, as Milton Friedman ideas, because people are even less familiar with Milton Friedman than they are with the current chairman of the Federal Reserve Board. So these ideas have to be taken apart in steps, we have to be able to show that every plan is a multi step process that takes a long time to implement, and show that we care how it's going to affect individuals. We can't have a situation any longer where it's just reacting one party against the other and blaming and lying about each other.
Brian Nichols 12:31
Now, I love and I have a question I write down midway, and then your your last line about not wanting to, you know, have that constant fighting. Well, guess what? I want to focus on the culture wars. So that's fun. Yeah. How about that transition? Well, one thing I did want to bring up because this kind of does segue into one of the top issues that's being discussed right now in America. And that is not just school choice, but parental rights. And, you know, just I'm not picking on you here, Mike. Well, one thing I did notice was that that wasn't on your your list of issues. And I would say that's one of the hot button issues we're hearing right now specifically, because number one, what's happening down in Florida with the the so called Don't say GI Bill. And then you have across the board, a lot of parents who for the past two plus years, watch their kids, you know, taking their their laptops, home from school being forced to work on their homework and have class at home, because schools were completely shut down in some cases for months on end during COVID. And parents got to see firsthand what was being taught in schools and they didn't like it. So what's your take, I guess, on this proverbial culture war, and let's maybe focus on this specific issue as we talk about it from a school choice perspective or parental rights perspective.
Mike ter Maat 13:43
Yeah, I would argue that the school choice issue is an economic and community development issue as much as is a culture war issue. I know a lot of Republicans like to turn it into a culture war issue, and the Democrats want to characterize the Republicans as doing so. But the truth of the matter is there is not a more important issue to the development of our entire society than ending this current niches notion that public schools should have a monopoly over the expenditure of money that is collected for the purposes of education. Some day, maybe generations from now, we may be in a position where we can end government involvement in education completely, but we are not on the doorstep of that happening. And I do believe that the next step to getting there is to making the money that is collected for education available no matter how you choose to educate your kid. That means it has to be available for homeschoolers, it has to be available for private schools, and has to be available so that you can choose one public school or another one private school or another. To your point about parental REITs not only is is school choice, the big part of that, but there are other elements as well. And I would characterize that as sort of a decentralization push. I don't like the, you know, I certainly don't like the federal government participating in education policy at the local level. But I gotta be honest, I'm not a fan of the state's doing it either. And I know a lot of people are fans of Governor DeSantis stepping in to block federal intervention. But, you know, when when the governor and the President are having an argument about you can violate the Constitution, I am the one that gets to violate the Constitution, I think we have a real problem. Parents have to be in charge of how they educate their kids. And if they screw it up that's on us, right? I put two kids through a combination of public schools and private schools, I was lucky that I was able to borrow hook or by crook to finance what I had to get done. Most people don't have, you know, the capability of getting their hands on the money to get escaped from the public school system. But we have to create escape routes. And I do believe that the culture war imposing itself on school boards is going to really accelerate parents interests and making that exit.
Brian Nichols 16:24
All right, Mike, that was the first part of the conversation that was for our non libertarian audience, the folks out there who were like, Alright, I need to hear who this guy is, and why he's bringing these new ideas to the table. For my libertarians in the house. They're they're like, Alright, we've heard this, we know this, I gotta figure out why is Mike different or better than the other libertarian candidates who either have announced or have yet to announce or have rumored to announce? Now there are some names out there, I'm not going to necessarily name drop them yet. But the folks in the greater Liberty world know who those names are. So Mike, you know, you don't necessarily have to name names yourself. But if you were to go ahead and say, What makes Mike termales stand out versus the likely field of other Liberty candidates, what would that be?
Mike ter Maat 17:11
I think that there's a couple of things. Number one, I don't think any campaign is going to be able to combine the bold messaging that we're going to have the aggressive dressing of big bold objectives that our party believes on, believes in combining that with a background of real world solutions, we're going to be able to put those two things together, we are bold, plus bold plus credible, we are not one of these campaigns that just howls at the moon because we're pissed off, we are so pissed off, we are pissed off enough to do the hard work to be able to back up what it is that we're howling for. Right? Nor are we a campaign that's bold minus, we're not going to be held back by cynicism, or calls for pragmatism. Or, you know, folks who would have us peel back the aggressive nature of the objectives that we go after, because for some reason, they think that the American electorate won't buy into it. The reason the American electorate doesn't buy into Boldness is because we either failed to back it up, or we fail to align it with issues that people care about. We're able to do that. And I don't anticipate there being another campaign inside the Libertarian Party that can bring all of that together. No other candidate is going to have a background of dozens of years of experience in public policy in terms of economics, another dozen years of experience in the criminal justice system as a police officer, and be able to bring all that together with bold messaging, it's not likely to happen. Where
Brian Nichols 18:55
do you see us going right now? And let's let's focus on not just the liberty movement, but let's just kind of focus on America in general, right, you're running for the largest office in the land as president. So I'd say this is a national conversation, a national issue. I would daresay, if you were to go out and ask your average person on the street. Is the country heading in the right direction? They're gonna say probably not, it doesn't feel like it. But, you know, I know that there are some things we can look to and point towards as some light at the end of the tunnel some beacons of hope. So Mike, where do you see the country going? And what are those beacons of hope for you?
Mike ter Maat 19:34
beacons are of hope, of course, are the fundamental nature of what we are as a nation. We are defined by immigration. We are defined by democracy. Those are drivers of our capitalistic system that are always going to keep us ahead of other nations. Having said that, I do not believe that relative to where we should be going. We are going in the right direction. I believe that we are not due to our politics, our politics have become so fractured. People are now no longer interested in what the other side has to say. People are no longer have a mind that those who disagree with me or even worth listening to both parties, the Democratic Party and the Republican Party in the political duopoly we have are adopting at an accelerating pace authoritarian natures because all they're interested in is winning, suppressing the other side, characterizing the other side as unAmerican unpatriotic. So as a consequence, you know, that's where authoritarianism comes from. It comes from fostering a fear of me as your leader not being in power, right, which is greater than your fear of losing your constitution. And once people fear the other side more than they fear, their loss of democracy, we're in a world of hurt. And I believe that's the direction that we're going in, the Libertarian Party must stand up. This is not just Brian a libertarian moment in terms of opportunity. This is a libertarian moment in terms of obligation, we need to be sufficiently pissed off and offish, and sufficiently worried that we're willing to do anything to stop it, including buckling down, communicating in a rational fashion, and launching a campaign that we can use to really relate to people. We no longer have the luxury of just being out there screaming out the window, because it makes us feel good. There's too much at stake.
Brian Nichols 21:52
There's too much at stake. And that's why I think we're seeing more and more people might ask him the questions tell me more, I want to learn more. Yes, I'm curious in learning more about this liberty thing that you keep talking about. So let's do this. Let's make it as easy as possible for them. And we'll make sure we point them all towards your social media. But before we get there, like words of wisdom, final thoughts here for The Brian Nichols Show audience remember that we have business owners, entrepreneurs, sales professionals, members of liberty world and liberty lovers across the United States, and quite frankly, across the world. So Mike, what would those words of wisdom as the potential future libertarian nominee for president in 2024 be?
Mike ter Maat 22:34
Brian people in your audience are used to having an entrepreneurial nature, they're used to wanting to think for themselves. And they're used to having respect for how other people think even to the extent to which it's different from how we think ourselves. One of the mistakes that we make, however, is that we sometimes don't anticipate that other people feel that way to know American wants someone else to shove their ideas down our throat. Nobody wants a government making decisions for us. So I would just welcome all of your audience to keep in mind that the way you feel is also the way other Americans feel all over the United States. We are in this campaign, not for ourselves. And to be honest, not even for people like you and me, Brian, it's for the people who don't have a voice, who do want to live their lives up to their own standards are not up to the standards that the government imposes on them. But don't see a way forward to achieve that. This party can be that vehicle. But I believe that we have to re orient ourselves in order to make the real impact that we need to make. This is an obligation for us.
Brian Nichols 23:56
All right, Mike, it's time for the call to action. I hinted at it not only where folks can go ahead and keep the conversation going over on social media, but I was over on your website. I was doing some research and rumor is and my rumors I'm looking at it right now you have a donate donate button as well for folks who want to go ahead and help support you financially. So please go ahead and give them a guide as to how they can go about and do that.
Mike ter Maat 24:22
Well, two things to keep in mind, Mike trimont.com. So it's easy to remember, you got to spell it correctly, right? Mi ke t e r m a t.com. There is a donate button. But here's the second thing to keep in mind. Please do not give more than $2,900 or I would have to send some of it back. The federal government limits your right to give as much money as you want. So bear that in mind. The other thing is if you don't have a penny in your pocket, but you like some of what you hear, or if you don't like anything that you hear, feel free to reach out to me. My real contact information is on there. My Real telephone number and email address Mike at Mike trimont.com. Let me know what you're thinking. Let me know what you're worried about. Let me know if you want to help. Let me know if I can communicate with you directly in a way that would help both of us move ahead.
Brian Nichols 25:15
Perfect. All right. Well, there you go, folks, and we'll make it easy for you, especially for you audio listener, all you have to do is go ahead to your podcast catcher, click The Brian Nichols Show artwork, it'll bring you right to today's episode, where you can go ahead and find not only the entire transcript of today's episode, but also yes, all of the social media links and links for not only the contribution page there to donate for Mike termasuk run here for president but also, we can go ahead and find all almost 500 Plus Can you believe in like 500 Plus episodes here of The Brian Nichols Show. So with that being said, it's going to be Brian Nichols signing off. You're on The Brian Nichols Show for Yes, LP presidential candidate Mike turn mot. We'll see you tomorrow.
Mike ter Maat 26:00
Thanks, Brian. Ciao.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Libertarian Economist &
Justice Warrior Police Officer
Mike has been a police officer in Broward County, Florida, since 2010. His prior career in finance and economics included work with banks, the White House Office of Management and Budget, international development agencies, federal agencies, and trade associations.
From 2002 to 2009, he started and ran a professional education business for bank executives which included conferences, webcasting, and strategic consulting. Mike has traveled in thirty-five countries, taught economics at three universities and substituted at dozens of public schools.
He has a wife, mother, son, daughter, sister, two stepdaughters, two dogs, a truck, a BS in Aeronautical Engineering and an MBA from Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, and MS and PhD degrees in Economics from The George Washington University.