May 25, 2022

509: How Do We Fix the Old, Broken Libertarian Messaging? (Brian Nichols on In Liberty & Health)

On today's episode, I joined Kyle Matovcik over on his program, "In Liberty and Health". We covered a TON of topics (like my weight loss, my move from Philly, and more!), but we spent a vast majority of our time focusing on fixing our old, broken libertarian messaging.


Are we up for the task?


Give a listen!


"The voter doesn't want to hear what it means to be a libertarian. Why? Because they don't care.


Why should they care? What does it mean to them - what being a libertarian means to us?


What they want to see is (and what we should be showing is), what do the libertarian ideas mean, for me, as it pertains to the political process. We have done a terrible job in being able to connect the dots. What we've done is we say, "look at this book, it's amazing. It's got all the amazing answers to life's problems. And it's all right here. And all you have to do is you have to read this book, and then another one, and another one, and another one."


And we good idea, people with death, instead of saying, "Hey, I noticed that while you were at the grocery store, today, you are complaining about how the grocery cart isn't as full as it used to be, when you're putting $100 worth of food in into the cart? Well, maybe we can talk about how we got here, right? I mean, would that be something you'd be open to discussing?", and then all of a sudden, you're talking about something that's real to them. And then you can start to position a libertarian solution."


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Brian Nichols  0:00  
Instead of focusing on winning arguments, we're teaching the basic fundamentals of sales and marketing and how we can use them to win in the world of politics, teaching you how to meet people where they're at on the issues they care about. Welcome to The Brian Nichols Show. Happy Tuesday there, folks, it's Brian Nichols here and long times. It's been an intro like this but a little bit different of an episode for you podcast listeners today. Yes, unfortunately, no. video version. Well, actually, that's not true. You can find the video version of today's episode over on a different podcast, which yes, that is today's episode, I joined Kyle Matoba ik over on his incredible podcast in liberty and in health. And it was an awesome time. We talked about so many different topics. And I asked him, I said, Kyle, this is a great conversation. Do you mind if we take today's conversation? And I can use it over on my program? Give me some extra exposure. And also, I think my audience would get a lot of value out of this conversation. Would that be fine? He said, Brian, please go ahead and share away so with that being said yes. Today is our conversation, I guess my conversation over with Kyle motovlog so if you enjoy the episode, please go ahead and give his program a subscribe. Links will be included here in the show notes. But with that being said, on to the show yours truly on in liberty and health with Kyle moto avec on today's special episode of The Brian Nichols Show.

Kyle Matovcik  1:14  
Alright, everybody, this is libertarian health episode number 99. I am pretty fired up today. I'm excited. I've been looking forward to this conversation I had one of your dear friends on here. A couple months back, Mr. Jeremy Todd, stud. And he had a lot of good things to say about you and the guy who did the designs for my logo. And kind of my whole branding Hunter McQuinn had a lot of good things to say about you as well. And I watched you on Tim Poole. And I've listened to your podcast a little bit. So yeah, I've been stoked to finally get a chance to finally sit down and talk with you, dude. So how are you doing today?

Brian Nichols  1:50  
I'm doing good, my man. Well, thank you number one for having me on. And yeah, Jeremy. So Jeremy is one of our CO hosts here over on The Brian Nichols Show. So he hosts a show called sell liberty. And really what we focus on is helping bring the ideas of sales marketing to the world of politics, specifically in the liberty movement. So that's been his approach there. And then yeah, Hunter Hunter is just absolutely fantastic. He worked a lot here behind the scenes doing video graphic design, all that fun stuff. So to a plus guests there. Thank you. And yeah, dude, my experience on Tim Poole was awesome. It was so fun. Tim is incredible. The team is as amazing. And as cool as they seem, on on camera, they are even cooler off camera. So it was a great opportunity there. And in the world of Brian Nichols. I mean, my man, we are busy as ever. So for The Brian Nichols Show, we focus on and I mentioned this, you know, for selling liberty, but the main idea and focus of the show is how do we bring Liberty based solutions to the problems that we see here in in our world today? And really, how do we do it outside of the political Leviathan, right, that seems to be right now where people, they're tired of the political conversation, if they're going to get engaged in the political conversation, they're doing so more out of self defense than anything. And and I think what we're seeing is that people are overtly just done with that old way of doing things, and are embracing just newer technologies, newer solutions that make the government solutions themselves just kind of inept, by design, and that's a good thing. We don't have to necessarily go through and unwind, you know, 200 plus years of law, to try and get back to liber topia, but rather, we can just see as technology advances, in many cases, it makes a lot of the laws relevant, it makes a lot of the, you know, the positions that politicians of yesteryear made irrelevant. So we need to focus more on that. And frankly, that's what we've been doing over The Brian Nichols Show. So yeah, five, five days a week, Monday through Friday, I'm having amazing guests on from both the liberty movement, but also across the world of business marketing, sales and all that in between. So yeah, man, it's been a blast and done to speak to some pretty darn cool and exciting and really a lot smarter than me people out there. And that's been that's been the best part of the program.

Kyle Matovcik  4:13  
Yeah, that's all awesome stuff. And I've definitely found kind of the same thing in about, I want to say a little over seven months of doing the podcast, is that the people who you can get on and that are willing to talk and that are just regular people is astounding to me, um, you've had Mark Loeb liner on a couple of times is I had him on once. And you know, I never would have thought somebody that I watched in my childhood would be I'd be talking to this guy and he just does a regular dude, essentially. It's podcasting truly is just something otherworldly to me to be able to connect with people all over the world. I've talked to people in China, you know, people all the way on the other side of the planet. It's, it's really incredible. And I don't think we stop and realize how grateful we really should be to Be able to connect. You're in Philadelphia Correct?

Brian Nichols  5:02  
I used to be I just moved actually back in January out of Philly, because it's got weird bad. Yeah, we got bad very fast here with with COVID. And two years of that checked out said nope, no, no more of that. And you know what I just saw Philadelphia literally, yesterday, I think it was yesterday or B this morning just announced that they have re instituted the mask mandate for children in school. We you know, just just to wrap up the school year, man, like, what are we doing? I don't understand why they still think that they can get away with this. And we talked about kids being the most the most vulnerable in all of society, where and yet we have let them be the ones who have who have really taken the brunt of this COVID 19 pandemic and the insane government policies that we passed down from from E to gun high. They they're the ones who are really have suffered the most over the past few years, we've seen education ruin childhoods ruin. Now we're psychologically torturing them by forcing them to wear masks indefinitely in schools, it seems, and this will not end until until we say it ends. So not Yeah, long story short, get out of blue cities if you are a liberty loving person, or if you're a person who you like what you're seeing in these blue cities, please stay enjoy and reap the fruits of your labor.

Kyle Matovcik  6:27  
I'll do it. Absolutely. And, you know, I'm on the other side of the state. Sorry, my pitbulls trying to get all the attention in the world sometimes. Sounds good.

Brian Nichols  6:35  
Welcome to the show. Yes, she's

Kyle Matovcik  6:37  
one of my less featured guests. I got two other dogs. My mini pet sitting down here my feet and my Doberman Australian Shepherd is normally being obnoxious, but she's been pretty needy right now. Um, so yeah, Philadelphia was a frickin shit show, dude. And I know you plan on share this on your show, so I apologize for my potty mouth. But uh, oh, good. Good. Yeah, I've I'm about an hour north of Pittsburgh, and yeah, I got pretty bad here. I remember when, in March, my fiance and I were at the to fog at a child, which is like a Brazilian steakhouse, wherever you you know, it's like the greatest thing in the world. Oh, it's amazing. Yeah. So we were eating and I remember getting a little message on my phone while she's really struggling. We were eating and all of a sudden, I got a message on my phone that said, Pennsylvania has now or Pittsburgh declared a state of emergency. I was like, Okay, well, that's kind of weird. I remember looking outside and like, Okay, well, everything's still seemed relatively normal. So what the hell? And then surely enough, like two weeks later, my fiance comes home with a letter that literally says, show this to the police. If you are outside driving, if they pull you over and ask why you're outside drive and go weird fast, huh? Oh, dude, it was insane. Yeah, look, I'm mechanic. Right. My hands are incredibly calloused. Rough. All right, I work on cars every single day, 10 hours a day, pretty much for the last damn near 10 years. I got laid off. I never thought in my entire life, that I would get laid off from working on cars. It was the most bizarre thing in the world. So I guess I kind of want to ask you what was your life and like in early 2020, because you were in Philly. And he just moved out. So you know, what was your experience? I

Brian Nichols  8:29  
have a few friends over there. But I'm curious to hear what your story was. Well, apparently my experience in Philadelphia was incredibly different than a lot of folks who weren't in in like the very blue areas. Namely, because we have Mayor Phil Kenny, who's like, he's, he's basically he's like the male version of Elizabeth Warren like it. And he just he knows everything better than everybody and he made sure that you know all about it. So I remember distinctly you know, sitting there and getting the the talking to from from Governor Wolf, saying that there were going to be essential versus non essential people. That was weird. And I kind of had my Padma amygdala Star Wars and this is how Liberty dies. last moment, and, and you saw this when people were terrified, right? Everybody's tired. I remember going to the shop right down the road. And you stand there and shop right, you look around, nobody will make eye contact with anybody. Everybody's wearing their masks. Everybody is just beyond the pale. They're wearing face shields. We're standing on little dots that are telling us where to be toilet paper is being ripped off the shelves. And in for about two months or so the entire city shut down like literally ghost town it was it was weird. And in May things I mean, never got back to normal Black Lives Matter protests pretty much signified I think in the mentality of your average no A more sane person that oh, okay, like if this can happen then it's not the end of the world virus that was is told we were. But then after that you had your your mask believers, the COVID vaccine believers who just would promote this and mass and it got to the point where if you if you did not toe the narrative, you not wear a mask, you weren't a good person if you weren't, you know, actively singing Pfizer's praises you weren't a good person. If I didn't have brought to you by sponsor, Pfizer at the sponsor at the end of my program. I wasn't a good person, apparently, to some folks. And for the first few weeks of our first few months of 2020. Not only did I see a lot of the people in not just the people that the community in Philadelphia change, you see some of the very, very dear and near people that you held close, they change entirely. I mean, yeah, talk about like, just how much COVID I think impacted a lot of us from a a personal standpoint, I had to my very best friends I haven't talked to in basically a month or a month and a year is get it right? Because I was promoting dangerous ideas throughout all of COVID. Right, because I wasn't towing Dr. Fauci his narrative. And I questioned the CDC and I questioned mask Fs efficacy. And I question you know, the the reports of it from from viewers about what was happening with the COVID vaccine reactions, and I questioned my own personal health saying, I'm not in bad health, I actually have been quite good health, I take care of myself, I am active, I physically fit, I take my vitamins, vitamin D, I don't see this being an issue that I need to go out and take a vaccine for, you know, I'll take my risk. And I ended up a Omicron, like, pretty much anybody who either was vaccinated or wasn't vaccinated end up getting, and I had just pretty much average symptoms. I mean, I felt like shit for a month. And that was about it. After that, I the long COVID I mean, besides just your traditional allergy season, like no, nothing, nothing has really been hitting me and I also Yeah, I'm thankful but my vast No, did I receive a lot of heck for that? Absolutely. You know, from from friends and family alike. And you know, I think we saw this happen Kyle across the board where people they really had to, to question you know, worth it. I hate going to Harry Potter, I hate being that millennial, but like the Dumbledore, there'll be a time where you'll have to decide between what is easy and what is right. And he was really easy to bend the knee and just be like, Yeah, I'm gonna have x yeah, I'm gonna go wear my mask. Yeah, I'm gonna do everything that I'm told to do. That was the easy thing to do. It was very difficult to stand up and be the person not toeing the line, especially in an area like Philadelphia. I mean, I, my sister in law was telling us how, you know, back when it started to get kind of normal in the beginning of 2021 vaccine comes out. And pretty much if you if you were like, Hey, I got my Vax, I'm done. It was done for about a month or so. Right? That was the year, it was a month. And she was saying how even in Philadelphia in her area where the people that they lived around, like if they went out and they were double backs, right. But if they went out without masks on, even still, they would get the look, you know that you're doing and, and that for them even though they're both more more on the left. But to see that kind of was like okay, even they're realizing it's a little a little much. And I think what we need to do is we need to take, take what we've seen and not, not not only not forget, but also not let the pressure off. Because this is not going away back to what I was bringing up here at the beginning. Philadelphia just reinstituted the mask mandate for five to seven year olds in school for two more weeks while they wrap up their schooling. What is this? What insanity is this? And it will not stop until we say it has to stop. And frankly, we either say it stops and go out and protest and make it stop and vote. Or we vote with our feet which is what I did. I moved out I moved to Indiana I got out of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. They want to tell me that I'm essential versus non essential. They want to tell me that I have to wear a mask to go patron. My favorite restaurants in downtown Philly Oh, nope. Just kidding you out. Now you have to have a vat of X mandate. And you have to have your backs passport to show you on go to your favorite restaurant. I'm sorry, no, you're not only not gonna get my patronage now, you're not getting my tax dollars. You're not getting any support from me. I'm entirely picked up and left. I sold my home. I no longer play paying property taxes like nothing for me. And that's what that's what millions of folks across the United States have done across the world have done over the past two years is they have voted with their feet. They have left these blue cities, these blue states in mass. That's why You see states like Florida and Texas, South Dakota, their numbers are increasing exponentially, whereas blue states like California, like New York, they're hemorrhaging residents left and right. Why? Because they had the most insane policies and continue to have the most insane policies. And I think only until the financial hit hits them. Will they actually let up the gas or even sooner? November 2022. I think they're gonna feel it at the ballot box. And that right there is going to be a huge wake up call. Like, are you are you familiar with upstate New York? Like Billy fusillo from fusillo? Auto Mall? Huge, unknown, alright, no. Okay, so for those playing along the home game, just go look up, Billy fusillo. Huge, and you'll appreciate how huge November 2022 will be.

Kyle Matovcik  15:49  
Nice. Well, you know what this kind of gets to, I guess a little bit more of your specialty here in the liberty movement is that the Libertarian Party in 2020 really dropped the ball and look, I like Joe Jorgensen. I even donated to Jo Jorgensen. Yeah, and people love to hate her. But if you look at her and what she believes in, she really is a solid libertarian.

Brian Nichols  16:12  
I know. Yeah. 100%. She is, but she Yeah,

Kyle Matovcik  16:14  
she's not a good messengers. Yeah, a good seller. So this is the problem in 2020. And I heard you talked about this with I think it was Chris spangle. From we are libertarians on his show was Trump was a great marketer, right? And obviously, all libertarians agree this dude should go to prison for the rest of his life for you know, preventing the earth for continuing the genocide in Yemen, just strictly for ARM sales and for Israel and whatever other interests are at hand there. But let's let's not, you know, not have respect for our enemy and not learn from them. Because Trump, the bombastic personality and the person, the populace that he was, that was very powerful to a lot of people. And as a guy who's a blue collar dude, and has been for his entire life. You can't underestimate that. Because when you go to these places, and you see towns like what I live in, and probably where you grew up in when you were living in Philly, there's shut down factories ever. I was talking to Tommy salmons about this earlier, the power of a 20/20 century style candidate, populist who just goes around saying I'm gonna bring jobs back. I don't hate you. And I want to see our industry booming again. That's powerful. And that really resonates with people. Now, imagine if you could capture an even larger voting bloc of people our age who were more 21st century oriented. And you're able to do the same populist messaging, hey, I don't hate you. But you've been screwed over by the elites, by the big banks by the military industrial complex by now the medical industrial complex. What if we had someone like that messaging for libertarians? You can't, and you can't overestimate how powerful that would be in the amount of people that you could bring to our side. And it's like people are ripe for the picking at this point. And I don't want to see the Republicans have a red wave in 2022. If it means that liberty is left behind, because that's kind of how it's looking to be because it seems like now this cultures, you know, this culture battle is gonna go back to the right. And I don't think it's going to be 100% Good. And I don't think it'd be one inch that bad either. But I think a lot of people, especially libertarians are missing and the opportunity and also kind of blind to the downfalls that could come with this swing back, right.

Brian Nichols  18:36  
Yeah, I mean, so let's look at the ticket from 2020. Yeah, if it had been flipped, Libertarians would have had a much better communicator of libertarian ideas as it pertains to the top of mind issues of those voters at that moment in 2020, which obviously, would have been leading COVID lock downs. I mean, that was the biggest ball that was dropped. And obviously, I'm referring just by Cohen's bike, knocks it out of the park, when it comes to actually talking about the issues people care about. And we have a lot of libertarian candidates were lining up right now. I think it'd be phenomenal libertarian candidates for 2024. Namely, Spike, Dave Smith, Justin Amash, Larry sharp, I think you mean just even those four alone? You'd be in great hands, right? Absolutely. But I dare say if you look at where Joe dropped the ball, and you did start to mention this is that she is a professor at heart. She wants to go into the nitty gritty and go through the laundry list of what it means to be a libertarian. I had on my show. It was October before the election. And I said you know, Joe, you're talking to the voters, what are the top three issues that you want to focus on? And she goes in literally, I'm not even kidding, Kyle. She just like walked right through the question. Well, here's what it means to be a libertarian. It means we focus on this, this and this and this and this and this and this, and I fell asleep

Kyle Matovcik  19:55  
during sound like a substitute teacher. And that's what it felt like,

Brian Nichols  19:58  
right and yeah, That's if you if you take that to the voter, right? The voter doesn't want to hear what it means to be a libertarian. Why? Because they don't care. Why should they care? What does it mean to them? What being a libertarian means to us? What they want to see is, and what we should be showing is, what does the libertarian ideas mean, for me, as it pertains to the political process, we have done a terrible job in being able to connect the dots, what we've done is we say, look at this book, it's amazing. It's got all the amazing answers to life's problems. And it's all right here. And all you have to do is you have to read this book, and then another one, and another one, and another one. And we good idea, people with death, instead of saying, Hey, I noticed that while you were at the grocery store, today, you are complaining about how the grocery cart isn't as full as it used to be, when you're putting $100 worth of food in into the cart? Well, maybe we can talk about how we got here, right? I mean, would that be something you'd be open to discussing, and then all of a sudden, you're talking about something that's real to them. And then you can start to position a libertarian solution. And here's the best part, you can do two things, either a present a real solution outside of the political realm, which is going to be something that's being built outside, whether it's, you know, let's talk about getting out of a monetary system with Bitcoin, or you're talking about different organizations who are trying to help combat the cost of living increases. So it could be anything, or you can go the political route, say, hey, that's why we're trying to audit the Fed, or that's why we're trying to end the Fed. That's why we're trying to make it so it's easier to get alternative forms of currency. So we're trying to get rid of our fiat monetary policy that we have currently in place, you can start to articulate those conversations in different ways, versus just saying, here's a great idea that I have, and that it's been had for the past 102 100 and some odd years by all these great thinkers, and you just try to make people care about the issues you care about, you'd have to bring the ideas instead to the people, what is it that they are actually concerned about? What are the emotional triggers that are hitting them, and then enter into that conversation, you want to enter into the conversation that they're already having? Either in their own mind or at the kitchen table? Right? What is the thing that's keeping them up at night, and then tie your solution emotionally, to whatever that problem is, and then offer that solution as a real, tangible, viable solution. You've all a sudden, you've changed from being guy standing on quarter with blow horn and boot on head screaming at somebody, instead of become a trusted adviser, someone who cares about their actual success in getting from where they are in their current state to a better future state. And oh, by the way, you're giving them a real map to actually get from that point A to point B.

Kyle Matovcik  22:54  
Right. And that's kind of the problem with a lot of libertarians. And I do think a lot have gotten better recently. Because now we've kind of decided to start talking more in concrete terms, right? Because after 2020, if your world wasn't changed, then I don't like the whole world is now different. And everything that we're dealing with is now different. So in a lot of people are asking for real solutions. I don't want to be locked in my home again, this year, what it costs me to fill up my gas tank is ridiculous. These foreign wars, they're sending $40 billion over to Ukraine, but then we don't have baby formula at home. So instead of sitting here telling people to read Mises, or Rothbard, people, people just don't have any. They don't care about that.

Brian Nichols  23:45  
Right? You have the bandwidth? Yeah. Can you bring them like it? Right? You're just imagine the person we're talking about, right? You're exhausted, you wake up every morning, you're like, Okay, I have to go to three jobs today just to be able to get enough money to make all the ends maybe just enough meat, right. And on top of that you're dealing with with whatever extra issues you have, maybe you have family issues, maybe you have kids that have to go to school and you have to make sure you're dropping them off. And on top of that, your boss is telling you to make sure that you get that project that you have to get done by Friday done and you're so be far behind because you're trying to play catch up in 13 other different areas and then the smug libertarian says, Did you read this book yet? What No, no, I didn't read the book yet. When When would you like me to read the book in between? When I'm at my first job, my second job my third job dropping my kid off from work trying to go what do you want from me? And instead of of trying again, going back to the idea of good ideas and people to death, we have to instead start to bring the solutions we have to them and instead of like making them do the legwork make it easy for them do the legwork for them. People want easy they want simple they don't they don't want A lecture right? They don't want mean lady scolding at the top that, you know, be the front of the class with the lectern and telling you, you know why you need to have these certain principles and values? Because this is the values and principles that libertarians have. Doesn't that doesn't work that way.

Kyle Matovcik  25:15  
You know, the finger wagging? I think a lot of people just have zero patience for and I can kind of see this when I talk to my co workers who are all Boomer cons, or when I try to finger wag at them, and explain libertarian NISM to them in any kind of derogatory way. It goes absolutely nowhere. And I even see this in kind of like the post libertarian realm now to is that they're kind of finger wagging finger wagging back at the people in the Libertarian Party. It's like, okay, well, why don't we kind of figure out where each one's going wrong and where each one's going, right? And then let's kind of discuss the ideas surrounding that, right. So if you think that people are just going to pick up once again, the biggest Mises book that you can give them and read it, you're out of your freakin mind. I see people tell me all the time, read the Bitcoin standard. I'm not going to do that. I'm sorry. I'm just, I don't care. I'm not gonna do it. I understand the basis of Bitcoin. I just have zero time to do that. Right? Did I, I'm an athlete. I'm getting married this year, I work nine to 10 hours a day, I run the podcast, I have so many different freakin things going on. So someone like me, who would be attracted to something like Bitcoin? I'm not going to do it. So what the hell makes you think that the average person walking down the street who's pissed off about inflation? What makes you think they're going to want to pick up the Bitcoin standard? It's about zero.

Brian Nichols  26:47  
Well, and we yet, and yet, this has been the libertarian messaging and sales strategy for decades. Yeah, Kyle, it's, what's the definition of insanity?

Kyle Matovcik  26:59  
Yeah, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Right. And like,

Brian Nichols  27:04  
what, what is this? I mean, I still get the stupid libertarian newspaper, like, in my mail. I'm like, what if this was spent more effectively, instead of like, pardon the expression, the Libertarian circle jerk? Like, oh, look at how great we were like, Oh, look, we had a meeting. Great, great, you had a meeting, nobody gives a shit. But people want to see you going out and making real change in their communities, like, stop being the online warrior and stop feeling great that you, you really own that guy with Robert's Rules of Order. Like, nobody gives a shit in real life. You want to make a difference, and get people to actually like, listen to what you have to say, show them that you care first, like go out, get involved in your community, like one of the first things I did here, I joined the Chamber of Commerce when I moved here. Now, is the Chamber of Commerce a, you know, a staunch supporter of free markets? No, but you know what, I can go ahead and I can talk to people at the Chamber of Commerce, who are business owners, and I'm almost guarantee that they're going to agree with a lot more libertarian ideas, and the National Chamber of Commerce. And you know, if we could maybe change the way we do the Chamber of Commerce here, wouldn't that be a good thing. So we had to stop looking at people who don't already think the way we think as our enemy, instead of looking for people who could be our target market. That's what we should be changing the framing, because it's so easy to get into the dichotomy of left versus right, good team versus bad team and instead, go back towards something that's gonna be actually a little more productive. Like, let's aim towards people who are actually open to our ideas are actually entering into I would call the window of dissatisfaction where they know shits hitting the fan, but they haven't actively started looking for an alternative solution, let's then be there, enter into that conversation that they're getting ready to have and be the people to help frame the alternative solution for them ahead of time. And then make sure that they realize it's the best solution because not only is it going to help solve their problems, a but B, they're going to do so without the added headaches of solutions, B and C, which would be the red team or Blue Team alternatives, which I mean, you could go through those alternative headaches, right? I mean, it's like a laundry list you'd see on a prescription commercial that goes through like Side effects may include runny nose bleeding, anal fissures, like and then those go through and list off every worst possible case scenario. That's what happens. When we vote for Red Team Blue Team nonstop, you get those side effects. And yet we keep on taking the pill because we like the little dopamine rush that it gives us when our team will maybe win every two or four years. So instead, let's be the difference and it starts by being more of a individual in your community building those real relationships versus trying to be an edge Lord or trying to educate good idea people or death online. Go out build real relationships with real people, pardon the expression but actually go out and touch grass. Be calm. I'm involved in your communities, talk to real people. And I think you're also gonna find that a lot of the issues that you see online that are like, the worst thing ever, if you go out into your community, it's not the worst thing ever. Yeah. Like I've been told many a time by people that like, if I, just by being an American, I walk outside, I'm practicing a racist every 15 seconds, I have seen zero racism. And in the past, I don't know, like two years. From Philadelphia to here, I lived in a predominantly African American neighborhood, like got along swimmingly with my neighbors, I do not understand why we have to continue perpetuating these these narratives. When it does not speak to what your average person sees when they walk outside. It's exhausting. The media narratives are draining. Your average person is tired of it. They're tired of being lectured to. It goes back to the Elizabeth Warren's of the world is scolding that feeling of just like, you know, I know better than you like looking at Phil Kenny and his pompous ass when he would go on TV and telling me why he knows better than then than me and everybody else out there because he's mayor of Philadelphia. So So what big big flippin do like I don't I don't care and you're I think you're seeing a lot of people don't care anymore. They're like I don't care the here the mayor. This isn't right. Just because you're the mayor is me you can shut down my business for until when question mark indefinitely. What? That's not real life.

Kyle Matovcik  31:25  
Yeah. Right. Right. Right. And it's not up to them to decide whether or not you can do business and unfortunately, they made it their decision. One thing I've kind of harped on on this show quite a bit was the all cops are bastards phrase. And there's nothing that drives me nuts more because you will automatically completely remove yourself from any potential right leaning people. All libertarians

Brian Nichols  31:49  
are bastards. What is What have you heard that slogan from somebody? On the left, right? Would you want to go and engage in a conversation with Oh, absolutely not. Yeah,

Kyle Matovcik  32:01  
we spent the scene from cops are bastards. Why did right. It's such a bad idea to kind of run in with that marketing. But this also kind of taps on something that I've been trying to hit on, especially since starting this show is that culture is very, very important. And there's no cohesive libertarian culture. I've been tossed inside, like herding cats. That's a word, right? I don't know if in 2023, or 2024, if I want to do some kind of political campaign, or maybe I want to compete in competitive bodybuilding. And those are two incredibly drastically different things, right? But it's like, okay, well, where would I make more good? Would I make more inroads being a competitive bodybuilder? And I've never even said this publicly. But would I make more kind of inroads and more splash being a competitive bodybuilder? Because already those people are kind of on the fringes of society. And they're actually more in our direction, as you would know from speaking though Mark Loeb liner, and plenty of other fitness oriented people, they're already kind of in our direction. Yeah. So if there's somebody in there to kind of push them a little bit further than what does that look like couple years down the line, as you get more and more people, you expand that network? Or would I be better served being in some kind of political office because of my name around this area carries a lot of weight because my dad, my family, I don't know where to go. And I don't know if I'll do either one. But it's something to consider. But you know, when I think about the competitive bodybuilding kind of deal, that's very cultural, because once again, that's completely outside of libertarianism. And I can build relationship capital with people. And then once we've built a relationship, and I'm hanging with these people, and they trust me, then I can give them the ideas of liberty, and then they now have the tools to kind of think for themselves a little bit more. It's not me coming in and saying, Oh, my God, look at me object to 10. Alright, I'll read the Bitcoin standard and economics one lesson, right? It's one of them. I'm a friend of a familiar face. So and then, you know, we go out, we work out together, and then they bring up man, you know what, I can't afford protein powder. And actually, protein powders and protein bars are becoming more expensive, and actually reducing the protein content in them. Yep. And if people motherfucking about this, well, what happens if I could say, well, you know what, there's this thing called the Federal Reserve that stealing your purchasing power, and also making it harder for farmers to produce these things? Well, that's kind of the root of the problem here.

Brian Nichols  34:34  
It's not just they're greedy. And this just all of a sudden happened, right? I come at them as a fellow traveler. So that's kind of where I've been thinking. And yeah, I don't know this. I mean, Kyle. Yeah, I may. Yeah. And I may be dating myself, but like the commercial of the little girl, though, why not both. Like, you can do both. And I think I would actually encourage you to do both because As and I see this with what I do at The Brian Nichols Show and then with with my, my sales career, right? So I talked with Tim Poole when I was unemployed said, you know, I, I talked to sales professionals, I talked to business owners, I talked to entrepreneurs, there are so many of them out there who they have remained silent, for fear of the canceling for fear of starting the conversation and the Bay on Facebook for the the starting the boycotts, they don't want any part of it. And I spoke up and it was a small business summit up in Wisconsin. And there's about like, two 300 business owners there. And I'm on stage and I was meant to talk about business technology and cybersecurity solutions my day job. And, and one of the gentlemen at the very end comes up and he goes, this is he's like, this isn't this isn't a technology question he's like, but you know, you do your show. And then one of the prior guests or speakers who was also there had also been on my show David Bellman, and we'd actually had him on the show to talk about a tweet that I had done, where I taken a screenshot of a Facebook post he had posted from his company, and Rob Schneider, retweeted it showed the difference between inflation on lumber from I think it was like a years difference or so. And just like how little you could get now with the same amount of dollars that you could have gotten a year earlier, Rob Schneider retweets it blows up and actually gets mentioned on Tim Poole when that happened. And I'm there, I know that I'm talking to this gentleman at this conference. And he asked a question about, you know, hey, you talk about this with David, about, you know, you get involved in politics, but talk to us, like how, how does that feel like when you go out? Like, do you get nervous? Are you concerned, and that will push people away that it will actually stop people from doing business with you. And candidly, that probably will happen. But that's okay in my book, because I think what we're going to find is that you will attract more people to you by being your authentic self, by not holding back what it is you actually believe. Because when they see you standing out, saying this is what I believe, then it might be controversial, right? It might not be the popular opinion, that might not be the the expert TM opinion, however, right? It may be the best opinion and the best choice that we've made the rationalization we've made based on the information we have in trying to do the best for, in this case, our customer. And, and if they can see that you're doing that, despite that, that speaks to what you'll do when you're trying to help them. And I've seen this firsthand, where if you put your customers best interests in mind, always. And you lead with your authentic self as truly not just one of service, but of trying to build value. And that sometimes requires you to tell your customer, hey, this might not be a good fit, or hey, have you considered an alternative way of doing something, a lot of times one of the hardest things I have to do in my day job, I'm talking business technology is getting somebody usually who's a lot smarter than me in the IT world to consider that maybe the solution they have in place isn't perfect. And then there might be a better way of doing it. And that sometimes can be the most difficult thing. Because you're you're not putting a person into a position where you're making them feel bad, but more so you're trying to show them hey, that's okay, because you were probably building that based on this information. But here's all the new stuff that's happened since you last did that. Let me show you at least what we've been doing to help other companies and how it's helped them. Hey, let's hop on a call, you know, 1515 minutes or so next week? How does that sound? And then you can take that time to dig deeper build the trust. And you can do that by showing that you not only have gone out and done the research and asking phenomenal questions, but then the listening part, the sitting back being able to take in what they're saying. And you see this and I'm no like I'll like I had become infinitely a better salesperson when I became a host of my show. Because you have to ask phenomenal questions and sales in order to get anything moving forward. Because there are so much that that your prospects will keep behind the vest not out of you know, trying to keep it from you or trying to trick you or deceive you. But rather, they just don't know that you need to know that you're supposed to be the experts. So guide them, help them see like this is what we're going to need here, here and here. Make it black and white, give them something physical, and they can go ahead and look back to like whatever it may be, but it goes through and actually building that natural trust. It takes time. It takes energy. It takes effort but also requires you to be different. If we're not going to do that as libertarians when we're going out and we're just trying to do the same thing that that same two party has been doing and it's tiresome at this point. There. There is no differentiation in that world, we have to be different not though just to be different, we have to be different because our solutions are different. And they're better.

Kyle Matovcik  40:10  
Right? Yeah, I completely agree. And it was interesting how you kind of mentioned, kind of telling people who you believe are smarter than you in a certain regard to consider what you have to say. And I think it's very important because it's you have to disarm people, essentially, when it comes to doing things like this. Because they have to believe that you're not criticizing them, you're not attacking them. So when it comes to convincing people things, like I was saying a little bit earlier, you kind of have to have capital with these people, which involves not criticizing or attacking or not finger wagging. And it seems like you kind of have a great capability for doing that. And being able to kind of convince people of what you're trying to do, and you know, between your show, and then obviously, your job as well. And I think it's very, very important. I think more libertarians need to do that. Rather than try to be a firebrand and say, the most vulgar shit on Twitter with people, perhaps you need to be a little bit more empathetic and maybe a little bit more patient. And yeah, there's some people you're not going to reach. But I guarantee you if you're a little patient, and show goodwill, and you know, are so reciprocity on that, then you can make a little bit more inroads, rather than just, you know, blocking people and thinking that posting memes is going to spread liberty,

Brian Nichols  41:30  
I I've had maybe two, three feuds in the entire liberty movement ever, ever. And one of them was with Arvind Bora over him when I first entered into the movement, he was at the time the vice chair of the party referring to public school teachers and comparing them to rapists and murderers. And then also he would post things on like Veterans Day Like, like you tried stuff, like just just very insensitive, just just stupid stuff. The other person that I openly feuded with was Nicolas SAR work former chairman of the Libertarian Party, which I think that just puts me a list of about like, 300

Kyle Matovcik  42:15  
other people. Yeah, but it's not you. Yeah, I

Brian Nichols  42:19  
hope not. But other than that, I think, I hope I've been able to build up a reputation in the greater liberty movement of being a bridge builder versus a divider. Because, I mean, let's just elephant in the room, Kyle, like, we're not in a position to be being like, they're not a libertarian, they shouldn't be in the movement. F this guy like, No, we are way too small of a movement number one. But number two, we are facing way too big of a monster here that we have to tackle to be doing this nonsense. Like, it requires us to stop playing the stupid games, get out of the little pond, little little pom little fish syndrome, in actually like start, start taking ourselves seriously. And I've tried to do that by bringing people that we traditionally haven't talked to, because we've been going out to talk to people who they tell us how pretty we are. And when we like that, right? Like we like to hear someone be like, you know, I was reading my thesis. And I heard that the free markets are the best. I too, was reading a book and I to her that free markets are the best, best podcast ever 3000 downloads in like the first five seconds like people are retweeting it left and right all because it's a circle jerk in your Echo Chamber, versus being brave bringing people on that are not part of our movement, but they have an audience of people, whether it's an active audience, that they're actively talking to you or people who support them, and their mission in some way, shape, or form that they can share with this this conversation on this random Liberty based politics show. And they might just enjoy what they hear. And they maybe won't listen to a few more episodes after they listen to that first episode. And with that Navy, they start to say, Oh, hmm, I like more than I thought I did. And then they kind of go down the rabbit hole, I would much rather have 10 2050 of those people solid, True Blue people who are who are there based on their they're getting it right versus going out and just saying the most bombastic thing to get the likes to get the dopamine hit to get the downloads because that will get you only so far in your, your circle. If you truly want to transcend and make a difference make a real long term substantive change, not just in our political movement, but also in the lives of the people we're supposed to want to be helping here and actually bring our solutions to. It requires us to then get out of our bubble and talk to people who are going to help us make these solutions reality. Example Case in point, we talk about cancer, healthcare, right. And cancer is probably one of the biggest areas that impacts all of us in some way, shape or form. We probably all know someone, a loved one, a friend, family member, whoever it may be, who has either had or has passed from cancer hadn't. Actually I have a cousin, little cousin, he's only seven years old, who's been battling pediatric cancer now for about two years. And he is one of 1000s and 1000s of kids every single year who has to face this. And I had my show Jacob Bethel, he's the founder of the Beckley Foundation. And what they're doing is they're helping use cryptocurrencies to help fundraising and it's revolutionizing the way that they're able to fundraise for pediatric cancer. And then also, they're able to use cryptocurrency and blockchain technology and NF T's to help incentivize advancements and research in pediatric cancer and other cancer research, because now, they're putting all the information on the blockchain, making it accessible to anyone who's doing the research. So instead of having two different entities doing the exact same research three blocks away from each other, but working in silos, having no idea what the other was doing. Now, they can see, hey, look at the advancement they're making here. Well, we can build on that. And then likewise, they can build on that. And it will exponentially help things move faster at a rate we never thought possible. All because they are taking advantage of the solutions that we're talking about, we would support in the Liberty world. And guess what, now they're making it so the little kids like my cousin, who just got his his first test, back post bone marrow transplant, which is looking great, by the way, thank God, but it's giving more little kids like him a future. And that right there. That's that's what we're selling. We're not selling our ideas. We're not selling the libertarian principles. We're not selling candidates, we're selling a better future for the people out there who really matter. And it's the people who are going to be out there that are impacted directly by our solutions that otherwise they would not experience right now. It's dictated by a corporate media. That's the basically the talking point for the Democratic Party, and then a rogue economic, it seems a band of some companies who are standing up and fighting back on the right, people see that they're tired of it, they're looking for a different way of doing things. Oh, a solution that uses an existing technology to help pediatric cancer funding and oh actually helps advance technology and research. Let's go that route. Let's avoid this squabbling, the fighting the feuding. Enough of that let's start embracing these alternative solutions completely overtly outside of the political solutions that we would usually see. Because now we're the ones controlling them, right? It's not some bureaucrat sitting in DC. It's not some politician sitting in the Senate. It's rather us the people who are actually the end users, the end, the end owners really on the platform, because we're investing in it. We're the ones who want to see it get better. And we do so by supporting it. And, and we're seeing it make a difference. So let's do more of that a.

Kyle Matovcik  47:57  
Yeah, absolutely. I 100% agree. And to kind of complement your point there. It's amazing how many people voluntarily do things like that. So my band plays a festival, and it's hosted by my drummer, the rock for life festivals, okay? I mean, they raised 1000s of dollars for sick children. And people will just throw money hand over fist to go see local bands playing to go support children who need it. So when you don't present it is political. And you just give the free market solution, which is a festival out in the middle of nowhere, where a whole bunch of bands play completely free right? Now, obviously, the person organizing the event has to upfront some money for the sound and everything. But all these bands play for free. There's people that volunteer to you know, sell shirts, do merch, do security and stuff like that. People have volunteered to do these things. Why don't we give more people more solutions like that. And I think people will realize when you present them that way and say, Hey, this is actually a very libertarian solution. People are like, Oh, well, you know, what, why don't we see what else we could do this with? Because you never know where you can stop with this. And I think that it doesn't have to stop at any one specific place. And you can continue to grow liberty in that way. Brian, do you have anything else you want to add? Or do you want to do the last couple questions I got for every single guest.

Brian Nichols  49:23  
Let's hit the last few questions. I think we put a nice bow on that. That's good, of course.

Kyle Matovcik  49:27  
Awesome. So the last three questions I asked for single guests. We'll start with the first one. Brian, what does Liberty look like to you?

Brian Nichols  49:34  
Liberty looks like to me where people can go out live their lives do good, recklessly, and not be impeded on by some random, arbitrary government entity who uses force to dictate what they consider to be right and wrong. And I think we're seeing right now more people embrace that idea of liberty, right? Like getting getting away from being told Will that your business is essential versus non essential? Yeah, getting getting told that oh, you you have to get a VAX in order to go eat at your favorite restaurant? Or to go to work. What? That that's, that's what liberty is? Um, yeah, I think that'd be a good way to summarize it.

Kyle Matovcik  50:19  
Cool. What does health look like to

Brian Nichols  50:20  
you? Health looks like to me both your financial health, both your emotional health, but also your sense of purpose, my good friend and one of my oldest mentors I've had here, Gary Collins from the simple life, he talks about this the three legged stool, if at any point in time, your physical, mental or sense of purpose is off, your three legged stool will be uneven, and you have to be consciously focusing on all those different areas. And if you're not focusing on them, then then you're gonna see your stool get uneven. So health for me looks like an even stool, net financial, mental and your sense of purpose. If you can get that that three legged stool even, then you're going to be a more even person and I would consider a more healthy person.

Kyle Matovcik  51:06  
Wow. Yeah, I think it's probably one of my favorite answers I've got out of anybody when asked me a question. Yeah, that's awesome. Well, all right. And you know what

Brian Nichols  51:13  
little quick side story like I, I feel a little a little overly qualified to answer that, because I used to weigh 380 like I was a big boy. And I ended up I lost back in like 10 years ago, at this point, around 180 pounds of fat altogether. And the fact that I was able to do that and saw the difference in where I was to where I ended up, night and day. And if you are morbidly obese, if you're struggling with weight, I get it. I've been there, I still struggle. It's a constant challenge to focus on that every single day for me, but it's possible. And you will see such an amazing return on that investment, not just the physical investment, but the investment in yourself like you will feel so much better. And it goes back to what we're talking about before you don't eat the elephant all at once. It's one bite at a time. Start with like, five minute walk. Then it's a 10 minute walk and a 15 minute walk suddenly, you're walking five miles, suddenly you're jogging a mile. Suddenly, you're running a 5k and then all of a sudden you're ending up in a marathon. How did you end up there? Because you took it one step at a time one bite at a time and I didn't lose 180 pounds overnight. I lost it in two years. Two years. That's almost 700 And like 50 days, I was tired. I was exhausted but the end. I went from a 3x down to a large medium. I went from wearing a 46 inch waist down to a 34 inch waist. I went from being morbidly obese and being told by my doctor I was like a probably a good hamburger or two away from a heart attack to being told that my vitals were the best they've been in 20 years basically since the doctor been seeing Meeks I've been fat since I was little kid. And that for the first time she actually felt confident that I was going to be able to like go forward and not have major concerns being a morbidly obese kid so that's what it takes to be healthy. And and frankly like it's the best decision I ever made. It's the best decision that I can I ever recommend anybody's that you got the extra baggage. Take the step both metaphorically and figuratively speaking.

Kyle Matovcik  53:24  
Yeah, well, I completely agree and I've covered on this podcast a lot but that's why I'm so passionate about health as well because I used to be 250 pounds at one point now I'm relatively lean 188 pounds. Hey, go borderline visual abs and dead lifting 500 pounds. I feel phenomenal. And I could not agree with what you just said there anymore. Well, we'll have to do this again because I kind of want to dive into your story a little bit more dude. Brian working everybody find you keep up with you and see what you're doing. And you got anything cool going on in the future? Oh, yes, we

Brian Nichols  53:59  
do. So Brian Nichols Is that is home base for everything across the board. So let's see where you can start. Number one, I do a weekly email to my subscribers over at Brian Nichols show for i My Morning Sales huddle. What the idea is is this is what I would do. And I was teaching my sales team. Back when I was out in Philadelphia was leading a sales team there of sales development reps. And what we do is we talk about really the basics of sales marketing and how we can apply them in this case it was the world of telecommunications cybersecurity, talking to IT director CIOs I took this and I apply it not just to the liberty movement, but also to just individuals out there who are sales professionals or were looking to hone their sales crack a little bit more. So that's over the Brian Nichols We're also you'll get a free copy of my ebook that I wrote four easy steps you can implement now to help sell liberty to friends and family they'll be fired over to your inbox if you sign up for the morning sales huddle as well. And then coming in the future. Yeah, so we got a lot um Number one we have the YouTube has been going crazy blowing up over there, you can find that attached every episode of The Brian Nichols Show. Org, just go ahead and subscribe on YouTube. But for the future behind the scenes, you're Kyle, you ready for this? This is gonna be an exclusive like I haven't told anybody that's not even my own show yet. Oh, man, I know there's a big, there's a big announcements. So we will second half of the year have a brand new entity joining The Brian Nichols Show family. Now, it's not a person, but more. So it's a project. And it's going to be focused on helping more so the sales and marketing world for business owners entrepreneurs, I know from reaching out to my audience many a time, you know, I'm getting 10s of 1000s of folks who listen each and every episode. And I think one of the things I'm hearing consistently is that they want to instead of always hearing a political conversation or a sales conversation to have an avenue to choose one or the other or other. So being able to give folks an avenue to choose one or the other is what's coming down the pike. So that's all I can really say at this point. But if people want to stay in touch well then go ahead. Make sure they follow me on social media at V Nichols Liberty Twitter, Facebook isn't the best place to do that. And that I'll be sharing everything with my morning sales huddle subscribers first, so And of course, my audience over The Brian Nichols Show. So make sure you head over to subscribe for the morning sales huddle, and The Brian Nichols Show. It's literally anywhere you can find your podcast, I go ahead five days a week, yours truly I'm bringing on folks from all over the place, whether they're bringing ideas, as I talked about today to how we can solve pediatric cancer funding and and help research there are two talking about focusing on fighting back against attacks against the right to defend oneself. I mean, there's so many different areas that we've been focusing on the program, and then of course, talking about how to sell and market these ideas effectively to your average person. The Brian Nichols Kyle, it's been an absolute pleasure, my man, this is absolutely part one of a many part conversation for sure.

Kyle Matovcik  57:01  
Absolutely. All right, everybody. This was in liberty and health episode number 99. Make sure you like subscribe, share, check it out on 99. Yes. Whoa, terrible. Don't people do that. So make sure you do all that. Make sure you go follow Brian and check out his show because it is awesome. I've checked out a ton of this stuff, and so should you so until next time, everybody. Rock'n'roll, take care.

Unknown Speaker  57:21  
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Brian Nichols  57:28  
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Kyle MatovcikProfile Photo

Kyle Matovcik

Kyle Matovcik, In Liberty and Health.

Kyle is a guitarist and back up vocalist for the band "A Common Crown", athlete, podcaster and Libertarian.