951: What is STOICISM and Why Does it Help with Stress?

Unknown Speaker  0:02  
We're good,

Brian Nichols  0:08  
all right, and with that, joining us here on The Brian Nichols Show today, we're talking about controlling what you can control. Tell me if you've heard that here before in The Brian Nichols Show, joining me here on the show, world young, welcome to the program. How you doing?

Speaker 1  0:18  
Hey, thank you, Brian for having me. I appreciate I'm doing great, doing phenomenal, actually, Oh,

Brian Nichols  0:25  
I love to hear it. Uh, phenomenal, great, amazing, wonderful. Just toss on the the this was it superlatives is that that's called, um, doesn't matter. We're here today talking about what we can control, and with that controlling what we can control, but will before we dig into that, plus finances, plus looking at uncertain economic futures. I want the audience to better understand who you are and kind of where you're starting out in today's conversation, what you're bringing to the table. So will do us a favor, introduce yourself here to the audience. Okay,

Speaker 1  0:55  
I'm an industry expert. I've been in the field for 21 years. I'm a certified financial planner with my own private practice. My specialty is really behavioral psychology and finance everything, based on Amos Tversky and Daniel Kahneman, Nobel laureates who won the Nobel Laureate in economics. My I'm a surfer and a devout stoic, and I think all three of these things, the markets, the economy, and stoicism and surfing all really focus on the dichotomy of control, of knowing what we can control and what we can do versus what we cannot control, and focusing on the things that really shape us internally, so that we're strong, whether it's out there, 1000 meters out In the water, whether it's in the markets and it's volatile, what do we do? How do we make decisions under extraordinarily unique economic situations, or just with our day to day lives, with being that inner Citadel, which is the the core stoic philosophy. So I think, you know, that's who I am, and that's what I try to bring every day to people, and I want to share that story with as many people to make smart decisions, not emotional decisions.

Brian Nichols  2:08  
Here, here well, and by the way, I my one employee who I know is right now his ears are definitely ringing. David, good to see you, buddy. David was one of my is one of my favorite people in the whole wide world, and back when I used to work with him one on one, we would do our one on ones weekly, right? And he would always come in, he'd be like, Brian, name sales guy here. He didn't handle my deal yet. Like, I booked the meeting, and he's just not moving forward with it. Like, what should I do? I'm like, David, chill. Let's control what we can control, right? And you know, whether it was the deal that the guy wasn't processing yet whether it was a girlfriend who wasn't getting a phone call back, whatever it may be, right? I'd always go back to control what you can control. And I was actually just out at my old stomping grounds. I saw him, and I chat with him, and he just unprovoked me. Was like, Hey, you ever used to teach me controls you can control? He's like, man that has become like my motto every single day when I started to get overwhelmed or anxious or stressed out over whatever is happening in life, in business, in the world, right? So that idea, but plus the ideas of stoicism will, and this is something you know, I've over the past few years, really started to dig into myself being a new dad, but also just looking at the world, thank you. And then, like, just looking at the world though, right, like, man, there's lots of frustrations out there. There's lots of angst out there. And yet it feels like it is a perfect opportunity to take a step back, right and almost recalibrate to your perspective of controlling what you can control, but also really starting to think through things, and trying to put things, not so much in a like, you know, you have the bathtub, but let's start off with a glass of water, right? Like, you can't drink it all at once. So, right? So, so will, like, help paint the picture here. Like, what are you finding work beyond just the the ideas of controlling what you can control, and stoicism like practical applications to real life, not only from a personal standpoint, but also what you're seeing help your clients in the financial space.

Speaker 1  4:10  
The first thing I try to do is I try to pay attention to the conversation we're having. And then there's a great metaphor called This is water, if you've heard by David Foster Wallace, and there's two fish swimming, and there's an old fish that sees him, and he goes, how's the water today? Boys? And they go, what's water? Because you're essentially trying to figure out where they are and what they know, and you're calibrating people. The number one thing is, it's not what we know, because our definition of courage may be different than their definition of courage, and their definition of success is different than so when you first you're asking, what type of conversation are we in? And paying attention to that, and then kind of understanding people's goals. This. Is important, because you're going to notice some people require a lot of hand holding initially, and then other people don't. They're like, I'm a long term investor. I'm not worried about all this stuff. They're the person that's not overly worried if there's a hurricane coming, because they've done everything right ahead of time, and they're mentally strong. Other people are running out to buy every egg possible in milk, even though they have it. So you need to determine go

Brian Nichols  5:24  
by your toilet paper. Same thing, yes, yes.

Speaker 1  5:30  
I delivered quite a few toilet paper there because I have a bidet. So if you there, I highly recommend them. But that's understanding and then getting to that emotional component. We often don't listen to people. And when you mentioned your kid, you know, kids basically have their own little thing where they're running off trying to go God knows where. And you're like, you don't know anybody. Where are you going? You know what I mean, but you can't get mad at them. They're that's, that's kind of the thing you control yourself.

Brian Nichols  6:03  
So I watch them, by the way, I watch bluey a lot because of a dad, right? And, you know, it is. It's funny when you mentioned, like, kids, kids just know what they know because, because I look at Blue, I watched blue with my daughter, and like, that is exactly the way it's articulated in the show. And as a parent, you get it right? Like you see it, you're like, Oh, yeah. Like, just kids being kids, but it's all contextual, right? It's kids being kids based on what they know, the world that they've grown up in, the things they themselves have seen, touch, spell, heard, right? Like, but once you get older and, man, this is where we all get jaded, right? Like, once the real world kicks in, you start to lose some of that, that wonder. You start to lose some of that, that, just like status quo joy, that we seem to have, that excitement over the silliest of things and and I watch my daughter watching Bluey, and I see that, I see the the just pure innocence and joy. And then I look to, you know, I look to my friends and, you know, my co workers, and I see the frustrations. I see the the stressors of everyday life. You know, it's on their face, it's, it's the it's the way they hold themselves, it's the way that they present themselves on social media, the Doom, the gloom, right? And I guess, going back to the idea of controlling what you can control, like, when you look at kids, they're not even thinking so much, control what I can control. It's just like, is, what is, is, right? I mean, like, it just, it's such a different context. So what can we learn from kids? Will, I know, you talk about going out on surfboards, and that's helped you, kind of, you know, in your world, understand how to approach, you know, some of life's biggest obstacles. But is there something we can learn from kids as well, of how to like, actually enjoy and be in the moment? Yes,

Speaker 1  7:54  
that is, that is something we all can do, because you can sit in a car and they can just aimlessly daydream. And I think taking a walk every day or doing something where you can meditate on your own thoughts and keep just kind of no thoughts, or just being present. Kids are always present. You'd go sit on a curb or go out in the backyard and throw a ball. You weren't thinking about anything. And you need that brain. So limiting what you use for news 30 minutes, or whatever it's going to be, will allow you to focus on other things, because a lot of people leave those in the backgrounds, and I tell them all the time, take nutrient dense information. Don't allow ESPN or political news or financial news to be on TV four or five hours, because it's just polluting your mind. It's like eating junk food. It's junk food for the mind, what you want is to say, I'm going to set out and do this, and then the other time, I'm going to do something enjoyable for myself, whether it's reading a book, you know, a comic book, or fictional or something. Because you want your mind to be off duty and not on high alert. Kids do that all day long. They'll go from one item to the next. And I do respect that. Being able to sit on the curb and say, How long has it been, mom, two minutes. You know what I remember those days? Yup. Now you're like, Oh my God. You know 30 minutes. You know, I don't know, just time changes when you get older. And I think just having a break from that is is very important. You can only control what you do. You can control sitting in a quiet room. You can control some breathing exercises. You can control what you put in your mind, but what you listen to. I'm not just sitting in the car with no noise, is a break. Is a joy. It's just like, Man, this is nice.

Brian Nichols  9:42  
Well, it's funny. You mentioned that because, and by the way, of like, moment of moment of like, self reflection for yours truly, because I, man, I struggle with that. I struggle with not being. Call it efficient. Call it productive, right? Like I am one of those guys who I'll be doing dishes. And I'll have one earbud in, and I'll be listening to some news podcast, because I'm like, Oh, I'm talking about XYZ topic with an expert in economics, or whatever the topic may be tomorrow. So I need to, I need to be up to, up to date on all this. And I'll listen to, you know, three different versions of that argument from three different types of folks, like, we'll get a conservative, moderate and a liberal, and I'll listen to all three of those takes on a certain topic, just to feel like I'm prepared, or like I'm doing something where I'm out at the park, and this is where I really gotta get better. And I'll like, I'll be like, oh, I'll just, I'll have a headphone in. I'll listen to something as I'm playing with my kid and like that right there. I, as you were, you were kind of outlining, like, just be present. Like, don't, don't feel you have to be doing something. And by the way, as a business owner, myself, and you know, in the world of sales, like my production, my activity does breed results. But at the same point in time, I need those moments of inactivity to recharge, to become mentally sound like and not not, I wouldn't say fight or flight, but just like this, this, you phrase it in the right way, of just like constantly being on, being aware, being plugged into something like It is important to unplug and truly unplug, not just to say, Okay, I'm not. I'm not watching MSNBC today. I'm not, you know, I'm not sitting there watching CNN or Fox, like listening to a podcast my year. Like, it's, it's, it's like truly unplugging. You

Speaker 1  11:33  
need, you need a break from decision fatigue. That's what, that's what wears us down. What is your best time of day, Brian, for you to really focus, like if you said, what? When am I going to be at my best? And that's when you want to do and be focused and present, because you learn the most.

Brian Nichols  11:52  
And I don't, I have an answer for that, honestly, because I, I am, I am one of those people who I will wake up first thing in the morning, and I am just, go, go, go. I'm working out. I'm trying to, you know, start getting my daily tasks lined up, you know, trying to go through my different projects that I have on my plate like I just, and then, you know, maintaining your personal health and your fitness, and you're trying to be a dad and part of the family and a husband. It's just like all these things I don't know, like I write

Speaker 1  12:24  
first thing in the morning, what you want to accomplish? Because you do a lot, you're very accomplished. So the question is, what are the three most important things you want to accomplish that day? And make sure they're done, and then work in some fun stuff, like four books, 10 minutes on audio books, where you can go walk for your own peace of mind, and that way you're not overwhelming yourself. Like you put a something a little challenging, maybe some Seneca, and you put in, like I'm doing, a range, which is a really fun book with great stories that I can then take deep into that are very light and easy. And then I go back to a hard book for 10 minutes, and then a soft book, because you're, you're, it's kind of like cross training, you know, you can't just go all out and your mind is the same way. It's a muscle, and you're just working it out.

Brian Nichols  13:14  
Well, yeah, no, I, and, you know, I, I love shows like this will, because it's a chance for me, like most of my shows are political, right, and just elf in the room. We talked we talked policy. I just had two back to back shows I recorded before you hopped on. One of them was focused on, like, a Supreme Court case. One of them was talking about immigration, like I, and I'm living in this world a lot, like all day, pretty much. And then on top of that, my day job, and, you know, the stressors of all that, and it's one of those things for me when I have a guest like you, is that it really helps me take a step back, but also I hope it helps the audience take a step back. And we just went through one, and I think it's fair to say, officially, one of the most like contentious elections of our lifetime, we literally had a sitting president or not sitting a former sitting president, but now who's running again for elected office, who became president almost gets shot and killed twice, right? Like the tensions were high, it has been an insane election, and like I see this continuing to this day, of folks, both on the left and the right, just they're battling it out. I have been guilty of playing a role in that, because that is what my show. My show is to try to help bring people to the table to talk about these very important issues, because it impacts us on a daily basis, and yet will we got to take a step back, like having you on the show. I've had my Josh Hewlett on the show, and we're talking about the importance of, like, physical fitness and, like, taking care of yourself physically. But we're talking about today, I'm not gonna say it's more important than the physical side, but the mental side, right? Like, if you're mentally, not, not not there, not not comfortable. Not feeling like you can take a break, right then that's that showing that there's something wrong. And I'm like, in these conversations that I'm, you know, today with you, I feel that like I'm feeling like, Okay, we really need to at the show, maybe even in yours, truly, personally, I need to, like, recalibrate a little bit.

Speaker 1  15:18  
That's a perfect word. Recalibrate yourself, pull yourself back. I am going to focus on Brian's health today, because Brian takes care of himself, then he can make great decisions for his daughter and his wife and his family, because he's not over stressed. And you gotta reduce like, if you overwork out, what happens you get so,

Unknown Speaker  15:39  
yeah, well,

Speaker 1  15:40  
correct or, or you just start to get sick because you're you just have too much going on and, and it's the same the food you eat. The nutrient dense is the information density. So I limit myself to what I'm going to consume each day, and what I consume because you don't want brain junk food.

Brian Nichols  15:57  
And how do you, how do you decipher that? But like, how do you, how do you figure out what you're going to

Speaker 1  16:01  
consume? So every morning, I basically have it. I do 20 minutes when I first get up, I listen to a couple things like I listen to like The Daily Show or the quips or the late night people. So I get some jokes in there. That way, I get some funny stuff. I just kind of laugh and busting out, picking on people. That's fun for me. And then it takes me 20 minutes. I get up at 430 I walk the dogs two miles every day. I've done that for about 15 years. And I listen to four audio books. I do 10 minutes, 10 minutes, 10 minutes. And I rotate them because Seneca is talking about walking past the Coliseum, and he goes. All of these men are focused on how the athletes train their bodies, but how many few men train their minds? That's no different than today. We worship the bodies of the gladiators like the football players. And no one worships the mind like nothing's changed in that you need to walk away and take a break with your mind from all that. Like there's nothing that changes. There's nothing. And it's so eloquently put together, and he talks about a clown that was blind living with him. He says, if I need a clown, I can just laugh at myself. You know what I mean? Like, I'm like, I I say some stupid stuff. And so he's like, I don't need a clown to live with me to be funny. I laugh at myself all day for the stupid thing. So we humanizing ourself and then adding some fun stuff to the books, like, I really enjoy range or the undoing project, because then you learn about this person woke up. He he woke up in a war zone, or he woke up in Nazi German, you know, Nazi occupied France, and so, you know, I'm like, I got it pretty easy. So it helps reset your situation to say, yes, it's contentious. Am I being the best I can be and be the most positive influence I can I rescue orangutangs and I fly overseas and do stuff like that, and this new administration has cut off all that funding, and it stinks. So I made a donation to help the elephants I was going to go visit. So yes, I could be mad all day, but I can't. I have to focus and say. I can do something personally about it, and that's what I'm going to do. And I can make personal choices for my clients and prepare them with words, phrases and effective it's called effective forecasting. I can help shape how they're going to see things, because I know that they're going to be overwhelmed with like, should I be too bullish, or should I be too bearish? And I try to smooth things out. So I do that for myself, and I do that first thing in the morning for two hours every single morning before I start the day. Started at 430 and by 637 o'clock. And then I have some mental models I'll share with you too. I'll send them over so you kind of have a gist of

Brian Nichols  18:45  
it that would that would be great, because, and let me talk more about my personal struggle, right? Because I am very much like I somebody called me the modern day Dale Carnegie, but for politics. And I was like, Oh, thanks. I appreciate that. I really do. I like to meet people where they're at on the issues they care about. I like to talk with people. I want to understand how they work at the same point in time, I have an agenda at times, right? I have a bias, and we all have bias, right? So and that right there will like, how do we bridge that line. How do, how do we bridge the line of I want to be, I want to be the, the best version of myself I want to be, you know, the Dale Carnegie of modern day, where I'm I'm not trying to, you know, I'm not trying to force my ideas on people, but rather understand who they are and try to help them see my ideas in the different lens, so maybe it resonates more with them. And yet, there are certain topics, right? And like, we don't have to jump on one side or the other for today's conversation, but look at the heated topics over the past five years, right? COVID, the war in Ukraine, the 2024 election. You mentioned the COVID. Are the COVID, the the federal bureaucracies right now getting all the funding cut, like all these issues, right? That are that they get people riled up? And I find myself, and this is where, again, where I'm kind of having moments of self reflection, live in the show with you, like I find myself as much wanting to engage in a respectful dialog, but at the same point in time to promote a certain perspective. What's the best way to like, to balance those while maintaining my mental health, while not going and, you know, having friends that I haven't talked to in person in 10 years. Get, you know, pissed off at Brian because he posts a thing that they disagree with, right? And then like, like, I don't want to make people upset. That's the opposite of Dale Carnegie. But at the same point in time, like, I feel I should plant my flag on certain issues, because they really matter to me. Help me out here. Will like

Speaker 1  20:55  
this. This is, this is what my core is. I this might be the best question someone's ever asked me, Brian, this is where I started that search, because I'm born on the spectrum, so everything is just really logical to me. I first thing you do is you hug them, shake their hand, you let them know you're here. You want to listen, and you have compassion, and you're willing to listen regardless of anything else. It de escalates everything, and it says, okay, and then you listen for whatever that claim is. Socrates did it, you know? But this is through the neuroscience side of it and the cognitive sciences. You listen for the claim. You repeat the claim back to somebody, so you make sure you hear them. And then you gotta clarify the definitions. Your definition Brian of working out, and mine, I'm 52 you're probably 30, you know, or Mike, what wish you're 30? My wish I was 30. My back does too. When I was 30, working out with weights was a different definition than today. You know what I mean, clarifying those definitions and then using some fun smiling. And I was like, I want to hear your genuine these are the first three steps, because you and then you calibrate that once you do that, step four is the death. I'm is identifying the confidence. If we're talking about some like, I think it's going to be a great market, or these tax cuts. Or I'm like, okay, and I'm like, I'm genuinely interested. I already know what I know, because I do this mental practices and I write, you have to get them to get to the the part where they're actually identifying the commons, they'll say 60% 70% 100% is like, Okay, if it's 61 out 100 because you now you're interested, once you're interested in someone, they like, Okay, this. They're listening to me, and I'm not talking over them. I'm listening and I'm so I'm talking 20% and they're doing 80% now you have genuine dialog where the person feels relaxed, and once you they say, what would be the reason for this confidence, can you? And they'll say, Well, tax cuts are good for the economy. Okay, great. Let's you gotta stick to one. You can't just be all over the road. It's like, kind of like, you know, you can't run a pass play and a run play and a and punt the ball at the same time. And sometimes people get a little off. And I'm like, Look, if I'm asking you who's your favorite quarterback, you don't say, What do you think about apples? And try to have a little fun with that. You know what I mean? Because I'm like, hey, just one topic at a time. I'm not as fast as you, because you need to stick to that point. We often allow ourselves to get off point. So I have these things to keep us kind of honed. Once you do that, then you ask him, How do you evaluate this claim of taxes? This is where the eyes will actually start to dilate. Because No, they've never thought about it like, what does cutting taxes mean? Does it mean cutting corporations, this and that where, and they don't, because most people don't understand the flow the generations, like I already have this. Once you do that, that person actually has to come up with a thought, and it's called the illusion of explanatory depth. And when you look at this, the beginning is it's naive realism. We all think we know a lot about whatever subject, but one minute you're telling me you know how to Ukraine, the next minute you're telling me you know all about chips and semi we're

Brian Nichols  24:10  
all armchair quarterbacks. Well, come on

Speaker 1  24:13  
and and without saying that directly, you're asking that. And I have like, a guy who's a shrimp farmer, and he's like, Well, why aren't the oil lower? I'm like, if, if I were you, and you asked me, Why don't I? Why don't I just make the perfect size shrimp, make the perfect amount and sell them at the price I want to sell them at. And he's like, we can't do that. Like, there you go. Now you're starting to think about the processes so that you don't get whipped up on what the people say on TV this process, and then once they kind of come up with it, you say, how do you evaluate your process, your mythology? Can you explain the process to me? You're not challenging them, you're not giving them that's the first time in their lives. I bet you they've been asked that question where they don't know, and you can tell they're thinking. And once. Start to think about it, they go, maybe I don't know as much. Maybe I should tone it down a bit, but you gotta be gentle, because you don't want to challenge somebody and make them feel stupid. And you just, by the

Brian Nichols  25:10  
way, that's deal Carnegie 101, that's 100% right there. I forget the specific quote in the book, but he's talking about, there's a gentleman at a dinner party, and they're talking about some expert excerpt from the Bible, and the host of the party says the quote, but he doesn't say it well. And one of the buddies of Dale Carnegie is he's a, I think he's like a scholar when it comes to like, like religious stuff or whatever they're at this party,

Speaker 1  25:42  
fascinating too, by the way. Oh, absolutely. But

Brian Nichols  25:45  
like Dale Carnegie, I think in the book, he's like, Well, you knew that that wasn't right, but you didn't say anything. And the guy was like, What good would it come from me telling him he's wrong in his own home, right? And that, for me, that was a profound quote, because I, as a sales person, have to do the same thing when I'm going to sell a new solution. You don't go in and tell them that their baby is ugly, right? You have to, you have to almost unsell you to understand, yeah, how did you buy this baby? Did you buy this baby? If you bought this baby, Where on earth are you buying babies? That's a different conversation for a different day. But like, do you understand what what got them to make the decision in the first place. So I understand how to guide them when they're making a decision next time, right? And notice the choice of words I did there. It's not to to force them to buy what I want them to buy. It's to help them re examine the way that they bought last time relative to how they're gonna buy next time. And you know, for me and you let's take a step forward to the world of politics, right? Like this is where the tensions get so heated, right? Because for every person will that they will enter into a conversation in good faith, and they want to actually, like, have a dialog. There's also equal numbers of folks, well, maybe it's not equal, but I see a lot of it, and you'll see where I'm going with this question. I see a lot of folks who do not approach conversations, do not approach dialog in good faith, right? They will be the person who will, yeah, they'll, they'll, they'll try to make you feel bad in your own home, calling you, calling you wrong, right? And they don't care about the the the the person behind who they're talking to, they care about being right. So I guess, in this mentality of being right versus being effective, when you look at people who are, let's just say, not necessarily, the best of faith actors, right, how do we have conversations with folks like that? Or is the better question? Do we? Do we have dialog and conversations with those folks?

Speaker 1  27:45  
Yes, no, no, I identify three different types of people. Okay, yep, con artist. You can't engage in good faith with the con artist, right? So the first thing you get with them, if you want to have some fun, in practice, I always say contempt for the con because they're dangerous. They're the ones polluting the wealth from up top. They're bad people. So if you want to have a little fun with them, you have every right to because they're thieves. Then you look at people and you say, I have content. I have compassion for the con. So if someone's selling messages, you have to get it out of them in a polite way by asking them questions. You have people that are in the call, which can be more difficult to kind of maneuver around, because they're going to follow the cult leader. And if you look at cults, which is kind of something I did, you have a mix of people that will drink the Kool Aid and kill themselves, but then you have a portion that won't, and those are the people that, if you can identify them, are going to be more willing to open up because our identity, and this is, it's called identity, protective cognition. This is the core people 100 years ago or even longer. You had to be a part of a group to survive. You just had to. And so if you Brian, are in a group, and you're certain way you like to identify the group, and if you start to have thoughts that are a little different, we often don't say that. It's called pluralistic ignorance. And I joke with my buddy in Indiana about this. Said, you're in a fraternity. You look around, there's 30 guys, and they're like, everybody drink this, run down the street, you know, shirts off, whatever, and all 30 of you going, I hope no one else wants to do this, but you're all doing it because the authority says it that's pluralistic ignorance. And when I said that to me, said, Yeah, you gotta point there, because now I'm connecting with him, and he's laughing like none of us wanted to drink that 10 shot. You know what I mean, none of us wanted to run outside in that freezing cold Indiana weather. So once you kind of relate to people, and you don't necessarily have to tell them the concept, but you can relate to them, you can start to build a connection with them. Like, oh, okay, okay, yeah, I know it. That's like, because our identity, when it's under threat, we automatically protect ourselves. Like, if you go to your kids say, clean your room, they're like, I'm not going to do it, because you're challenging who they are. And that's very important to notice that. But if you're gentle, and you listen and you joke and you have a little fun with them, and you can relate to something funny, because we all did stupid things with our friends through peer pressure, then you then you open people up. Boy

Brian Nichols  30:14  
oh boy. Do I have some stories about doing stupid things with friends, but that's a different conversation. And a different podcast, mind you for a different day. Well, this, this dialog, has really been, it's it's been insightful for me, but it's also been, it's been eye opening because I it's just funny how things happen. I had posted a post in a group that I'm in, and it's one of those groups where everybody kind of just, they sing that they sing the same song, right? They're all singing from the same sheet of music. Very much. We'd call group think, right? Yeah, and I found myself starting to disagree. I don't know if disagree is the right word. It's just real life has helped me start to re examine values, but not so much. Let me rephrase that, not so much. Re examine values. Re examine applications of values. So like I am from a textbook definition, a small l libertarian, I believe in the ideas of don't hurt people and don't take their stuff, right? My good friend, Matt kitty, you wrote a book called don't hurt people and don't take their stuff. And I read that book, and I'm like, I think this is me, like, and he, by the way, is a huge rush fan. And Neil Peart, who is the drummer, he's a huge libertarian as well. So, like, the book is written half storytelling and half, you know, like half philosophy, right? It's like half telling the story of Neil per in rush, and then half telling the story of how Matt in the book, found his values. And in this group that I'm in on Facebook, a lot of the folks are both the small l, meaning they're not identifying to a party, right? And then big L libertarian where they find themselves as part of the Libertarian Party, and I have definitely started to ruffle some feathers with folks in the big L libertarian movement, because I very gently have, maybe not gently now so and again, this conversation has helped me reframe things a little bit. I have been poking a little bit, because there seems to be almost this mentality of living in this contrived utopia of, well, no, the world's not the way we want to be. But man, if it was our ideas would be awesome, right? And I tried to help rein them back in a little bit of saying, okay, but we are in this thing called the real world, right? So, like, let's talk about real wins. We can get real, like, real skins on the wall that we can look to and say, Aha, we did this, right? And I know I have been more confrontational in recent months, and that's shame on me, because I, as we're talking today, I hear the frustrations that I have had, you know, in the way you're explaining how to through this, like this, almost like Socratic approach, right, of leading with questions being more effective, because it really makes the person you're talking to have to not So much justified. I'm not looking them to justify, like I need them to articulate. And if you don't understand what you believe in, how can you present to other people what you believe in? So it almost feels like, and here's where I'm going with this thought. It almost feels like for folks in the world of politics, specifically in this seat that I find myself in, of being a political commentator, but also trying to have these overtly non political conversations is that the best plan of attack seems to be just asking questions, right to to not necessarily go in with planting your flag, I believe, X, Y and Z, but rather say, here's a topic. Let's talk. Is that fair? Yeah,

Speaker 1  34:00  
that's a perfect example. I mean, it's like my brother in law's a mechanic, and I said, just fix it. There's not how it's I want a solution, but he's the person that's going to tell you how it's done, and what's in our mind of how it's done and what actually how it's done are different. So once you get a person to put themselves as the mechanic or the shrimp farmer or the construction worker. Now, all of a sudden, that person has to think, and that's why, when we talked about sales, asking a person if you were the if you were the advisor, what would you change? How would you approach it? Now, all of a sudden they're telling you what to do. I mean, literally, well, I would do that. Okay, thanks. I just sold you, yeah, because you I just put them in my shoes and, okay, thank you for sharing. That's important. I'll make sure I do that now. I mean, that sounds that that's winning people over, right? Dale Carnegie, win, win. Yep, that's all you try to do is win people over. Or through creating a dialog that allows them to open up and feel safe that their views regardless of anything else, and as they tell you that story, they're going to realize that they don't know as much. And that's how you build a connection. Like, oh, you know what? I probably should have thought deeper about this before I said anything, and that that builds more conversations, because that's all we want.

Brian Nichols  35:19  
And let me ask you, this will, because, um, like, what do we do when we hear people who are, they're not the con men that you articulate earlier, right? But like, they're, they're just everyday, average people, and what if they are promoting ideas? And again, I'm not specifying the idea, just, let's just say a bad, not even a bad idea, a dangerous idea, right? And where that dangerous idea may be, but, like, is there, is there a responsibility for us to say this is dangerous? Like, like, time out? Like, yes, I want to understand you. I want to have empathy and kind of walk in your shoes to to understand how you got to where you are, and, frankly, to see if you understand where, how you got to where you are, right? But if it's a dangerous idea, like, if my two year old is running towards the road, I could ask her, like, Hey, honey. Like, why are you running right now? Why are you running towards that road? No, I'm gonna run. I'm gonna grab her and pull her back. Are your

Unknown Speaker  36:16  
eyes gonna kick your ass? Oh, she sure will, too,

Brian Nichols  36:18  
um, but like, like that right there. That's also where I'm a little stuck. Help me there. Like, what do we do with those truly, not just like rhetorically, but truly dangerous ideas?

Speaker 1  36:30  
Well, I'll give you an example. As soon as the new administration won, you had people who wanted to just put everything in crypto. And to me, that could be very dangerous, because it went from 60 to 100 if you have a short term goal, maybe that works for you. But if your long term goals are something else, you could lose your shirt. It could drop, and it has, it dropped about 30% so trying to be in front of them and asking them, what are we trying to accomplish here? What are what are you? What is your long term goal? What is your short because people, I know people who lost 5060, 70% of their money during the crash after the, you know, the stock market went up during 2020, and then they put all their money in all these crazy tech stocks like zoom at 500 now it's 100 yep, that's that's dangerous. And I guess I try to relate to that. But if you're talking danger in terms of other things, I don't come across it as much in my daily life, because most of my clients know me, or friends that I'm in or people don't necessarily open up. They know how I think so. People sometimes won't say anything, because they know I'm going to drag it out of them. And what would normally be a two minute conversation is a 30 minute conversation, because I really want to get to the heart of the issue. And often, you know, we can't play doctor. We don't know more than the doctor. Someone who went to school for 10 years and does all this, but yet, you'll go on the weekend, and this is what's called the illusion of information adequacy. We research it for the weekend, and now we're like, you know, spouting off things that are dangerous. Let's say like an Aaron Rodgers saying things. I'm like, Aaron, I went in my backyard through the football over the weekend. Now I'm a professional football player like that mindset is dangerous and spouting that stuff off, but that's what he thinks. He's like, I read a few things. I went to Cal I'm like, You got CTE brother, like, you know. But anyway, I'm just saying that could be dangerous with some of the things he's spouting off. And I would love to have a debate and open him up, but that is something that I think, I guess could be dangerous with some of the things they say in spouting things off. But I guess it depends on the person and my comfort level, and obviously, what type of danger that they're spouting off this

Brian Nichols  38:41  
well. And by the way, like, I mean, interrupt, it sounds like one of the things that you said there, without overtly saying it, is to understand the level of impact you can have in actually changing that person's mind, or at least helping them see things they haven't seen. You mentioned like that. The folks that you know right. They know you right. They know how to be able to have a com have a conversation with you, and they, by and large, should know what you believe, versus someone like an Aaron Rodgers, who doesn't know you from Adam. Right. To be able to have a dialog with him and to change his mind would be much more difficult, because there is no fundamental level of trust already established with that, know, like and trust, right? So, like, I think the first, the first course of action would be, identify your circle, right? Identify where you can have the most impact, and then start there. Don't, don't go out, you know, planting your flag on the top of the mountain, hoping that you're going to get everybody's attention when everybody's, you know, miles and miles away like you need to find a close knit circle first, where you can start to have some impact and start to make positive changes, and then work your way outward. Is that fair? Yes.

Speaker 1  39:52  
And just if you walk up to somebody and you give them a hug and say, Look, we're going to be friends no matter what, let's talk about. Let's open up. You can make people. Will feel more comfortable because you don't want to come in anything standoffish. And I find that a lot out I'll hug somebody or check in and say, it's so good to meet you. Just little things like that matter to people, because now they're like, hey, this person's you kind of created a little bit of like, okay, we have some comfort here. Comfort is the number one thing. If you don't have any comfort. That's where you get one person at the gym screaming about something else, oh, I'm on this bench. And you're like, you know, you always have the crazy people that do that. But most people, if you say, hey, you know, if you approach them the right way, they're like, Oh, come on, work in with me, or whatever the case. You know how it is at the gym. Most people, if you treat them right, they're happy to share things with you, yep, and that's how you have the mindset,

Brian Nichols  40:44  
all right. Well, we are well over time. I could keep going with this conversation forever, because, likewise, this is just the stuff that it does. Just it. We were moving ourselves from the the heated conversations and and again, like for myself, after a very intense political season, I know a lot of folks who listen to the show, after a very intense political season like this is a show we needed. We need to, at times, just take a step back to really re examine things and back to the main theme of today's show, right control what you can control and and I think you know, when we look at the way that we can approach not just what to think, but how to think, and how to have dialogs with people, to really get to the root issues and causes of disagreement like that is imperative in creating a better society. Because if we continue to just point fingers at other people and say, You're a bad person because you voted for this candidate, or you're a bad person because you like X, Y and Z, or whatever it may be, the ISM the issue of the day. We're not going to be able to come together as a society moving forward and have some real positive changes that we can look to and say, Yeah, we accomplished this. We did this together. It turns into my America and your America, and I don't want that. I want, right? Like I want to be able to have a dialog. Yep,

Speaker 1  42:07  
that's exactly right. We're in all right, 100%

Brian Nichols  42:12  
100% Um, well, let me do this. I'm going to go ahead and let you bring us home today. Final thoughts for the audience, what would you like to leave the audience with? And of course, where can folks go ahead, reach out to you if they want to continue the conversation? Continue the conversation, off

Speaker 1  42:24  
air. Basically, you can look me up. Will our young I'm available. I'm not able to share the firm I'm at. For compliance purposes, the first thing you want to do is focus on your own mental health, your own wellness. Focus on the dichotomy of what you can control. If you know what you can control, you will stop allowing external factors to bother you. That is one of the most important things, and I relate that to the markets, whether it's the markets going up and down or afraid investing. You think of your short term and long term goals and think one of the most important things I said to myself every day a year from now, you wish you would have started today. That is one of the most important things to say. How am I going to make myself a little bit better each day? And that's that's who I want to be. I want to be the best possible version of myself, and I use the psychology and the meditations and the stoicism and surfing as my peace of mind to get out in the water away from all the technology. So look out for me. Reach out for me. If you want to talk. I'm happy to help people. And you'll get a little philosophy, you'll get a little surfing, and you get a lot of market information. If you work with

Brian Nichols  43:31  
me, there we go. Love it. Well, will this has been a great conversation. Definitely. Part One, I think we're going to have you back on at the very least quarterly, to have some some just touch points, right? Because as much as I love to dig into the fray of all that's happening in our world, I also like to just take a step back and talk about the stuff that actually matters, and, yes, the stuff that we can control. So folks, if you got some value from today's conversation, please do me a favor. First and foremost, give it a share when you do tag yours truly at beat Nichols liberty. Also, if you're joining us here on your favorite video version of the show. Be that YouTube, Rumble, Twitter, Facebook, wherever it may be, head down below into the comments. Let us know your thoughts, and of course, ask good questions. Let's keep it high level. And of course, control what you can control. Otherwise, you can go ahead and find yours truly on your favorite social media apps like Instagram, Facebook and x.com you can find me at B Nichols, Liberty. Will any anything else you want to leave the audience? What do they be? As we say goodbye,

Speaker 1  44:25  
no, I just thank you all for listening today, and I hope you just take a little bit of time to yourself and focus on what you can control. Thanks a lot

Brian Nichols  44:32  
here, here. Alright, with that being said, Brian Nichols, signing off. You're on The Brian Nichols Show for Will Young. We'll see you next time you.

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