June 24, 2022

531: THEY ACTUALLY DID IT: The Supreme Court Overturns Roe v Wade!!

What are the implications politically? And what can the Libertarian Party do to reach voter who have otherwise been weary of the LP's platform.

After weeks of waiting for the final decision to come down from the Supreme Court regarding Roe V Wade, the SCOTUS has actually gone ahead and struck down the 50-year ruling.


What are the implications politically? And what can the Libertarian Party do to reach voter who have otherwise been weary of the LP's platform.


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Brian Nichols  0:16  
Instead of focusing on winning arguments, we're teaching the basic fundamentals of sales and marketing and how we can use them to win in the world of politics, teaching you how to meet people where they're at on the issues they care about. Welcome to The Brian Nichols Show.

Caleb Franz  0:29  
Happy Friday

Brian Nichols  0:30  
there, folks. Oh, geez. What are we gonna talk about today? I don't know. I can't pick job right now. Because if you go into social media anywhere, you're just going to be bombarded. So I pray for you because yeah, today, Roe v. Wade is officially been overturned by the Supreme Court. Hi, welcome to The Brian Nichols Show. I am as always your humble host. It's gonna be it's gonna be a banger of an episode today. And also, it's going to be important because the Libertarian Party just changed their national platform. It's going to have a lot of conversation digging into how this is going to affect things going into the elections. And I have a great guest in store for us today to help walk through and talk through things. But before we get there, want to go ahead and give a shout out to our episode sponsor in that is the expat money summit 2022 head the Brian Nichols show.com forward slash expat where you can check out the expat money summit and you can also go ahead and check out the expat money show where McHale Thorpe will will show you how to go ahead and keep your hard earned dollars protected from those greedy politicians who are trying to tax it to death and tax you to death but also November 7 through November 11. Five days 30 expert speakers it is a free yes free virtual conference folks had the Brian Nichols show.com forward slash expat and grab your free tickets today. And I promise you watch for a week you will reap the benefits for generations and in the interim head over to the expat money show. Give it a subscribe and make sure you're learning from a calthorpe I promise you you will not regret it one more time. Brian Nichols show.com forward slash ex Pat All right. I can't talk about this entire Roe v Wade thing by myself today. So I got good friend of the show. Caleb friends. He's returning to the program to help me out Caleb, welcome back to the program.

Caleb Franz  2:24  
Hey, Brian, it's good to be here.

Brian Nichols  2:25  
Good to have you back my friend. And yeah, who? Lots to talk about today. Um, yeah, we if you go into social media, I don't know about you. I scrolled for me two seconds. And I just couldn't do it anymore. Because it was every other post was just talking about Roe v. Wade. And you can't just I mean, are those days when that's like, there's one thing dominating the news feed? I can't do it. I'm like, I'll see you. I'll see you in a couple days, guys. But Caleb, this is monumental. This is 50 years in the making. Talk to us. What is what has happened here with with what just happened with the Roe v. Wade ruling?

Caleb Franz  3:00  
Yeah, I think we're really seen the outcome of really the 2016 election, with President Trump and all of the things that came out of that, something that I was initially pretty skeptical of, in 2016, admittedly, that he was going to be, you know, be actually putting rather conservative candidates, conservative justices, I should say, on the bench, because quite frankly, a lot of Republican presidents recently before him have not had a great track record. So I didn't really see a reason to believe that he would, but it is very clear. And this is not just roe either. This is the the the gun decision. Before that the education decision before that. This is really showcased, I think, just how much the court has changed and the past four years because I remember the court when when President Obama was still president, these are not the kind of decisions that would be that would be coming out of nowhere would be coming out of court whatsoever.

Brian Nichols  4:17  
You tell Are you telling me that Supreme Court Justice Merrick Garland wouldn't be ruling in this type of manner. Caleb

Caleb Franz  4:22  
no and even even someone like John Roberts even though he did rule in favor of a overturning Roe, as the case today, as well as I believe he ruled in favor with the with the gun case and the New York gun case yesterday as well. You know, that was something that he he, I don't think you would have done necessarily, you know, 10 years ago. So it really does showcase the cultural change and and the and the political may Got, I say political and somewhat loose terms, because I don't think these were necessarily political decisions that they made, but rather constitutional ones, which is an important case, an important distinction to make when talking about these issues.

Brian Nichols  5:15  
Yeah. And it's also partly why we've just seen over the past few few weeks here, this conversation actually has been taking place behind the scenes with the Libertarian Party because this was a big part of the most recent Libertarian Party convention where the Pro, okay, it wasn't really pro choice language, it was more, it was more language that kept government out of the conversation of abortion, which I know some libertarians prefer that. However, I think based on where the conversation of the country is right now, and frankly, this is also if you look in sales, people want you to take a position on things they don't like the wishy washy, when people were looking for a yes or no, and they're looking for some some, you know, actual guidance in terms of okay, what is the Libertarian Party actually believed? And in this case, what they've done is they've actually removed this conversation from the libertarian plank and said, say, No, this is a conversation that goes back to the States. And that's exactly what, at the end of the day this ruling reaffirmed from the Supreme Court was Yeah, going back to the States. So we're almost seeing Caleb, this, this reversion, and it's actually I would say, in a step in the right direction for the LP especially. And judicially, we're seeing this across the board as well towards federalism. Right? And federalism is something you talk a lot about over on your awesome podcast, which we'll go ahead and plug here in a little bit. But we see federalism is absolutely an area where libertarians, conservatives, right wingers, I don't know who you know, in general, I mean, heck, there are some lefties who I see make Federalist arguments, and they don't even realize that they're making Federalist arguments. So you see that there isn't an appetite for for federalism. And is this not just the means that the Supreme Court is actually passing down right now to your average state? Yeah, go ahead. Here's federalism, enjoy it and do what you want with it. California, New York, you want to have abortions galore, go be our guest. But if you're in a more red state, in that's more pro life leaning as a society, if they want to do do to the restrictions on abortion to the extent they want to, then that's I think, what's going to happen, and it's going to be either a you vote to change that or be you move with your feet. I mean, that's what we did we move with our feet. So that's gonna happen, and I think in mass as well, failed thoughts.

Caleb Franz  7:37  
Yeah, I think when it comes to the, when it comes to the LPS recent decision to just remove it outright, I always felt like that was probably the smartest move that they could do, while still maintaining a sense of cohesion as far as who they are as libertarians, because on that issue of abortion is something that is incredibly dicey. It is something that a lot of people have very strong opinions on. And it's something that, you know, there's not really a clear libertarian answer to it the way that there is with virtually every other issue. And the in the way that it was sorry,

Brian Nichols  8:24  
Wally, quick, I just, I have to interrupt because you're, what you're touching on is an pardon the expression plants are a libertarian autism, where we have to have a definitive yes or no answer on something. And that's exactly what you're referring to. Sir. Continue?

Caleb Franz  8:37  
Yeah, well, I mean, the way that it was written before, I mean, you alluded to this earlier, it was it was kind of a hands off approach slightly, but it kind of wasn't it was written in a way to where it's it slanted a little bit more towards the pro choice wing of the Libertarian Party than it did the pro life. Wing. And I think that that really alienated a lot of people because they could see that it was like it's not technically endorsing a pro choice position, you

Brian Nichols  9:13  
feel comfortable, uncomfortable. Whenever I was asked Brian, why are you a pro life libertarian? Why are you having pro life folks on your show? Why are you doing that? Why don't you care about women's rights? I'm like, that's not the conversation at all. And to your point, it makes it really hard for me to even feel comfortable in the group I'm supposed to be promoting when you're almost being pushed out for your views continue. Sorry. Yeah. And

Caleb Franz  9:32  
you know, I have to be clear about this. Like, I don't necessarily have a stake in the game. I'm not necessarily a member of the Libertarian party or any party for that matter. Right now, I am rather independent in that sense. But I do think it is rather indicative of the broader libertarian movements in the conversations that we have in the broader libertarian movement and this is something that we were Talking about a little bit before hopping on here is that there are people and the libertarian movement that it's time that we sort of sort of evaluate and and, and self evaluate in the sense that I think we get into our bubbles. And that is especially the case in those like DC environments or political environments. Whereas we alienate certain groups of people that are very present. And if anything this, this convention has showed that those people are there. And it's, it would be a mistake to alienate them for much longer, if you don't have to necessarily agree with with them. And I don't think that I do on every single issue. But it is important to understand why they feel the way they feel, and it is important to understand sort of the position that they're coming from. Because that could mean the difference between I mean, this is the entire reason why, like Trump won in the first place. The Republican Party, I know, that's not the Libertarian Party. But there's a lot of similarities in the way that and the way that the Mises Caucus as as happened at the convention, sort of took over the LP versus the way that Trump sort of took over the GOP, and then eventually the White House. You don't have to necessarily support that. But I think you do have to understand it. And if you're not trying to understand it, then that's that's a fatal mistake.

Brian Nichols  11:37  
Yeah. Well, we just talked about this on our episode, I think it was on Monday, I did a solo episode where I talked about the French elections, which I'm not sure if you pay attention there, but Marinela Maria Maria Marie bullpen her? Right, her her party, they actually did really, really well. Surprisingly well. And you know, they actually things like 80 some odd seats that they ended up taking after the last election cycle, I think it was two, five something years in single digits, though. So the fact that they they jumped so much is just shocking. And and the fact that she has been able to make such a rise, you look over and Europe, Brexit, we have here in America, Trump, and with the COVID Insanity, which was really pushed down by the COVID regime that really exacerbated things here, I think locally. Yeah, say locally in America, but also locally, right? I'm seeing I'm not sure if you're seeing this Caleb, where you are down in Kentucky, but like, the, your your average person is so like, is so attached to reality, which I noticed that sounds mean to the other, but like into your point, the bubbles, like the people who are in the bubble, or in the beltway or in the establishment like the, for the lack of a better expression of the laptop class. Like if you are detached from around you like your surroundings there. So I had a gentleman my shirt, I don't mean to rant here, but there's a gentleman on my show named Steven. Steven. Oh, god, my name is Brooke. Steven Miller, I think gentleman's name is Steve Harrison. There we go. Sorry, I had so many folks. 500 Plus episodes, folks, give me a break. But Steve Harrison, he's a marketing guru from from Britain. And he wrote a book and we had him on the show, we walked through it, but he talks about the people who are called the somewheres. And the people who are called the anywheres. And if you're a somewhere, you're someone who you identify with your locality, you identify with your community, you know, the people, you know, the families, you're you're invested into, not just your community, but the people that make up the community. Right. And with that the culture, then there's the anywheres, it's the people who I think would be more of the the laptop class. And this is the folks who they can live anywhere, because they're not necessarily attached to a specific area. But moreso they're attached to a general culture that you can access from anywhere. So as long as they're able to get onto their, you know, their idiot box or get onto the Internet, and they can watch their favorite shows with their favorite people, then they're comfortable being from California to New York to Florida and all that in between until the specific policy start to impact them directly. Right. And that right there speaks to the difference between your anywheres and your somewheres. And then there's like a small minority of folks, I think, who are like The Inbetweeners who can live anywhere and still identify with the somewheres and identify with a local area. I kind of feel like that's me. I live in Philadelphia is about the same, right? That's kind of where I am to Yeah, like I've lived in New Northern New York, southern tier of New York. I've lived in Elmira, and yeah, Southern New York, Elmira. I've lived in Philadelphia, PA and now I'm out here in Newcastle and I have found especially each time I've lived Then those areas that I get very connected with the communities. And I, oh, man, like I see a lot of folks in this laptop class get stuck in this like this, this online world and I see it I see people who online is real life, there's that that, you know, tongue in cheek expression go touch crass because I think too often people do think that online is all that it is real life. So

I'm hopeful right that we did kind of take this full circle that we're getting more of a party that is open to people who are the somewheres. Right, the people who want to feel that their communities matter. Yes, national conversations, national issues are important. But at the end of the day, if you're letting the national conversation, Trump no pun intended, your local issues that matter, quite literally more important than anything else, then your priorities are completely askew. And this has been the focus of the Mises caucus that I have been from the very beginning on board with it's something I'm going to have Michael heist here on the program again sometime soon. And we're going to be digging through this idea of focusing on local elections. Because one thing that we've been talking about, I think, from 2018 2019, when the show started was, if you can build trust, how do you do that you do that by winning local elections, you do that by creating the the idea that you're not just there to run every two years and be that different, different person on the ballot, but actually running to solve the problems. And now when you run as local office, or you go for those open seats that don't have anybody that's running right now. And you win, and you can put Liberty oriented solutions into action, and you make your community better. That's when things start to change at a fundamental level, because now no longer is liberty or libertarian ism, right? The Libertarian Party, no longer is it a good idea, or you know, a nice to have now it is we're seeing it in action, it makes sense. And oh, by the way, when this person runs for a more high level office, now I can trust them that they're going to do what they said they're going to do and actually solve the problems. And they did it in a way that they said they were going to do it originally. We can build that trust, we can we can really I think we can build up a case to be made to your average voter, that we are quite truly the less radical alternative to both the Republicans and the Democrats. If you are the team, Big L libertarian, by the nature that we're trying to instill more power more authority back to you, the local individual, the individual in your community, and get rid of this, this fear this threat of the pendulum swinging from one side to the other every four years, every two years, depending on if it's Congress or the White House. And with that, whether your team is going to be the team and power or the team that's going to be targeted. Let's stop that. Let's let's get rid of this, you know, this ginormous Leviathan state, let's instead put the power back where it actually matters. The people, the communities, the localities? Caleb, I'm off my soapbox thoughts.

Caleb Franz  18:20  
Yeah, you know, I am someone who is a I'm much more of a movement guy than I am. I am necessarily a party guy. But I think the the same sort of principles generally apply across the board. Whenever you focus primarily on on the areas that you can affect change the most. That tends to spread quite rapidly, and it tends to spread very quickly, very substantially, and with a solid foundation. Whereas if you're trying to go for it, I think it is important to have certain aspirations. And that may even be unrealistic in the very beginning. I think that is that is important as a movement or a party or whatever it is that you're trying to do. But you also have to have a game plan as far as like what does immediate change look like? You can have those grand visions and grand ideas and it might come sooner than then what you might expect. But you have to have a game plan about what does immediate change look like? Because that's the kind of change that you can focus on first and foremost, and it can it can create those those grander visions later on down the road.

Brian Nichols  19:35  
Now before I give our final thoughts here for the episode, because we do have some final thoughts for this, this conversation on the Roe v Wade abortion and the Libertarian Party going forward. But first, I want to go ahead and give a shout out to an awesome sponsor for the program and that is Eagles Eagles has been from the very beginning with us here at The Brian Nichols Show. Yeah, that's right. The old days of E a b l e s eagles. Yeah, for those of you who've been here for a while you remember that commercial as a good one. But no Eagles has been a phenomenal sponsor here in the program. I'm a big fan of their Eagles freeze gel. This is the 500 milligram roll on, you can go ahead and get go to the Brian Nichols show.com forward slash eagles. And by the way, if you're scared of the whole, you know, trying this this new CBD product, don't worry, it's all health, no high you can start your pain free tomorrow, today and the Brian Nichols show.com forward slash evals by the way, use code TBS at checkout, and you'll get 15% off your orders from CBD free gel roll ons to topicals to all that in between. Yes, one more time, Brian Nichols show.com, forward slash eagles. All right, Caleb, let's give our final thoughts here for this, this whole, you know, insane conversation of the day that we kind of knew was coming with Roe v. Wade, but the direct implications on the liberty movement, and let's maybe focus some on the Libertarian Party as well, my take, I think this is going to absolutely open the door for more folks to join the Libertarian Party because of the fact that is now making it. So a lot of folks who were very onboard with a lot of liberty message now can feel more comfortable in the movement. And frankly, I do find it funny that we do as libertarians like to tell people what they cannot do, or what they're they're not supposed to tell others to do. But we tend to do that a lot for our own movement. So I will say that is a nice step, I think in a much better direction about this conversation to allow more of a real conversation versus stifling of one particular viewpoint over another. And also, with that being said, I do think that from a national perspective, there's gonna be I think there's going to be some pushback, I think the Republicans are going to maybe get a little bit more pushback this election cycle than we had hoped we had thought. It depends, though, on how this is maintained in terms of the emotional attachment to Roe v. Wade, going towards the elections relative to the economy. And I know that sounds gross to say, Hey, this is the economy versus abortion rights like but at the end of the day, like what's gonna push people to the polls, if the economy continues, where it's at with inflation going into stagflation, and likely we're heading into a recession at the same time, Bad News Bears. And also you see that the Biden administration is pushing this gas tax which are gas tax holiday, which I mean, yeah, let's let's do that and keep it forever. Because what's, what they're doing is they're proposing it to come back in in September, which Caleb, I'm not sure if you're good with calendars. I'm not too good with calendars. But I did do some math really quick. That's only two months before the 2022 midterms, which just adding on an extra tax onto people's gas, just right before the midterms doesn't sound like a really good political idea. So I do think that this will be an issue that Democrats are going to try to cling to, as they go towards the midterms to have any semblance of hope in either maintaining some seats or trade and trying to win a couple seats here and there. But with the economy, I just my gut is telling me and I firmly believe this is going to be a conversation that the Republicans cannot lose. Because people you know, and this again, there's more people who are looking at the it feels better saver, there's more people who are looking at the gas station and feeling now this is an issue then people who are dealing with abortion every single day. And that's just a sad reality that we have to acknowledge. So that's my thoughts. Caleb, what are yours?

Caleb Franz  23:25  
Yeah, I agree that that the economy is definitely going to be the issue. Despite all the all the Twitter drama and everything like that the economy is still going to be the issue that mobilizes people that that gets people to go out and vote a certain way. And it always has this isn't this isn't rocket science, it's it's the way that things have always been. And for some reason, there are certain people who still haven't figured that out yet. But, but to narrow in a little bit more, more specifically on on the libertarian movement and some of the drama within the Libertarian Party. You know, I don't want to say one way or another whether or not the Mises caucus is a net positive or net negative. For the LP, like I mentioned, I don't really have a skin in the game. As far as that conversation goes. What I will say, though, is I think it as I mentioned before, is rather indicative of, of the broader Liberty movements. And that is an important distinction and an important conversation that needs to be had. Because the more that you sort of, I mean, you know, Libertarians fall victim to this too. We get into our own our own sort of groupthink, where, where we all speak alike, and then we end up alienating large swaths of people. That may be just slightly different from us, but not I'm terribly different from us on the big picture things. And that's not a group of people that we want to alienate. We want to have those conversations and and be inclusive in a in a, in a broader term in a broader statement, without necessarily sacrificing any of those any of those fundamentals any of those principles that we have. I think that's kind of the balance that has to be struck. I don't think that certainly not the LP, but I think like I mentioned before, that the, the broader liberty movement still has to figure that out what that balance is, hopefully, it's something that we can figure out within the next few years. So that way, we can walk away as a stronger movement. But as it stands right now, there's still a little bit of soul searching to do.

Brian Nichols  25:52  
I am not a caucus guy. I haven't been a caucus guy. I've been asked many a time, Brian, what are your thoughts on caucuses and I have said I overtly remain agnostic to QA chi. And now I can firmly say, though, that I Because Because let's be real, that wasn't my role. My role is to help you guys be more effective in taking the ideas we talked about every single day, the ideas that we want the world to embrace, and to be able to communicate them more effectively to your average person, right? We're focusing on not winning arguments, right, but winning hearts and minds. And my role has been just that now, I have been firmly in on board with the idea that the Mises caucus has been promoting of local elections. And that's we've been talking about that on the show, literally, from the beginning. So a lot of what the Mises caucus has been talking about, is stuff that we have been talking about. So I just didn't really find it my role to go ahead and tell them to keep doing what they're doing. But more so as you have people who are embracing these ideas of liberty, showing them how to effectively communicate it, especially if they're new to the movement. Hey, like if you're new to liberty, movement, stuff, welcome, first and foremost, but we have an entire entity here at the program called Cell liberty, that it's entirely focused on talking about these ideas, and be able to communicate them with your average person. So by the way, go like that on Facebook, and Jeremy Todd, he's one of our CO hosts here in the program, he will go ahead and he's getting his new season going up here. I think sometime in the next couple of weeks or so he just got moved, settled, whole thing he's going to be hopping on again, in the podcast world relatively soon. But this is what we do. Right? My job is not though to go out and enact the political change. That's to help you guys be more effective at doing so. So I hope I'm doing that. Hopefully, you guys are getting some value. And if you are, please do me a favor. Go ahead. Number one, and give us some love. I know I read all the reviews we get here at The Brian Nichols Show. So please give us a five star rating and review. I would love to hear about it. And also by the way, while you're in the process of checking out podcasts and stuff, I teased it earlier Caleb's got an amazing show as well called profiles and liberty. You can find that here on the we are libertarians network. Caleb, talk to us. I know you already have a couple seasons there in the bank, another season TBD. But what can people go ahead and expect to find if they start digging into profiles and liberty with Caleb friends?

Caleb Franz  28:12  
Well, it is rather convenient timing because there is a certain holiday coming up called the Fourth of July or Independence Day. That is all the focus of season one of of profiles and liberty, I go into the signers of the Declaration of Independence, kind of detail some of their stories, some people that you may have heard of some people that you may not have heard of, actually some people who you very likely have not heard of, and I try to try to elevate those those voices and those stories. So that way, we can have a more full picture of what these heroes of liberty look like. It's not always I don't necessarily think this is something I mentioned and past conversations with people about this show that I don't necessarily think that every single person is going to relate to every single person who listens, but I do think there is going to be at least one person in each season that's really going to make people sit back and really reevaluate or really appreciate to a deeper level than what they had before. Season two is all about who a group of people that I have dubbed the equalizers. It is a group of people from everyone from like Frederick Douglass to Harriet Tubman, as well as people like Abigail Adams or mercy Otis Warren. It's a really, really great season. And I think that there's some some great stuff there as well. I'm currently working on season three, it should be out sometime this fall. I'll have more. More details on that once it gets a little bit more completed. But as for now you can subscribe and listen to all the episodes we have, I think There's about 16 right now. So plenty of content to consume.

Brian Nichols  30:04  
There you go, folks. There's your call to action and Caleb's been on the program many times. So all you got to do if you're on the podcast version of the program, yeah, the audio version, all you got to do, click your artwork and your podcast catcher, it'll bring you to Brian Nichols. show.com, you can find today's episode, you can find Caleb's bio, you can find every other episode that he's been here on the program. Also Caleb's done some awesome solo shorts. So go give those a listen as well. And oh, by the way, if you didn't realize this, we also have a YouTube version of the show. So make sure if you're over there on Brian Nichols show.com. Just scroll up to the top of the page for this episode. And you will see the video version of the program head the YouTube make sure you give us a subscribe. Yeah, and also hit that little notification bell. So you're not missing a single time we premiere here on The Brian Nichols Show. And oh, by the way, I'm gonna go ahead and make sure I include a very special episode. Usually I include the most recent episode here below for for the listener. But what I want you to do today is instead include my episode right here with Olivia Rondout, where we talked about how to talk about abortion without killing each other. So yeah, that's a very pertinent conversation. We had that a few actually a month or so back at this point. So I will, I will include that special episode for you guys right here below. But otherwise, with that being said, thank you for joining us on today's episode. Caleb, any final thoughts for the audience before we wrap things up?

Caleb Franz  31:26  
Yeah, if you want to subscribe to profiles and liberty or anywhere where podcasts are at. So be sure to go ahead and give us a subscription and preferably a five star review if you find it in your heart and we'll certainly appreciate it

Brian Nichols  31:42  
there you go. All right, folks. Well thank you for joining us in it yeah, if you enjoyed today's episode, please go ahead and give it a share when you do give your shoot a tag at be Nichols liberty and make sure you give it Caleb a tag as well social media included here in the show notes and oh by the way, if you enjoyed the episode today, make sure you go ahead and check out all 525 other episodes here of the program. If you go to your podcast catcher, click that Download All button so you can check out all 525 episodes. I promise you Caleb, they will leave you educated, enlightened and informed. With that being said it's Brian Nichols signing off. You're on The Brian Nichols Show. Have a great weekend, folks. We'll see you on Monday.

Caleb Franz  32:21  
Thanks for listening to The Brian Nichols Show. Find more episodes at the Brian Nichols show.com

Transcribed by https://otter.ai